Mercedes AMG F1 W07

[SparkyAMG]

Software problem for the Mercs in the race? Both Nico and Lewis had problem with derating, Lewis a few laps earlier.

My theory is new software that kicked in during the pitstops and there was a bug in it. Max speed like quali mode on the in and outlap but the engine continued to derate.

So either of them did anything wrong with settings. It could be helped by some weird sequence of settings by luck or wait for a time delay when the software resets itselfs away from those special parameters used. Maybe a safety action if battery is too loo for long.

This is just a theory. Can anyone confirm or deny the possibility?

What suprises me the most is that it rectified itself with 10 laps to go on Lewis' car. Either you are in a faulty mode or not... very suspicious...

I don't think it's as black and white as that.

I'd imagine that the software is constantly reacting to the circuit they're on, fuel levels, temperature, pace, laps remaining, pit stops, tyre age etc. So when an engine mode is selected I don't think it creates a fixed set of rules for how lean the fuel mixture should be, or which corners the engine is going to de-rate at.

Instead, it might set maximum and minimum parameters for each variable, but will apply the most effective combination for that point in the race. This, according to Mercedes, is where they got it wrong by not configuring the software properly for the Baku circuit.

Once Hamilton had pitted, the software therefore started doing something unexpected based on all of the combined conditions at that time in the race. My guess is that Rosberg had been using a different engine mode to Hamilton (probably Merc's equivalent to a cruise mode) but switched to the same mode in reaction to Vettel upping the pace at that point of the race. When he also encountered the issue he switched back to cruise mode, which ironically was quicker than the other buggy mode at that point.

Back to Hamilton... towards the end of the race when temperatures had dropped and fuel levels and tyre life etc all became a bit more certain, the buggy software no longer held everything back and thus 'fixed itself', or started behaving properly.

[henry]

Software problem for the Mercs in the race? Both Nico and Lewis had problem with derating, Lewis a few laps earlier.

My theory is new software that kicked in during the pitstops and there was a bug in it. Max speed like quali mode on the in and outlap but the engine continued to derate.

So either of them did anything wrong with settings. It could be helped by some weird sequence of settings by luck or wait for a time delay when the software resets itselfs away from those special parameters used. Maybe a safety action if battery is too loo for long.

This is just a theory. Can anyone confirm or deny the possibility?

What suprises me the most is that it rectified itself with 10 laps to go on Lewis' car. Either you are in a faulty mode or not... very suspicious...

The software is adaptive. It looks at what actually happens on a lap, compares it with what it thought might happen and makes changes to bring the two closer together in future.

[bono59495]

Mercedes' secret revealed
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/L-as ... 05529.html

[e30ernest]

Mercedes' secret revealed
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/L-as ... 05529.html

Interesting... any photos of the said apparatus?

[lio007]

Mercedes' secret revealed
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/L-as ... 05529.html

Interesting... any photos of the said apparatus?

Here is a little gallery:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 72372.html

[Jolle]

Mercedes' secret revealed
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/L-as ... 05529.html

Interesting... any photos of the said apparatus?

Here is a little gallery:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 72372.html

I don't buy this heating up the brakes to "bend" the rules for tire pressures. Every team uses brake warmers these days, most of all to have a better balance in tire and brake temperature. With the current re-gen rear axle you'll cook your tires before you and have the brakes on operating temperature and having the max ES store. An outlap is more about maintaining temperatures then getting heat into the tires and brakes these days.

How important brake temps are these days, is shown by radio messaging just before pit-stops. Drivers are asked in their inlap to overheat the brakes slightly, so when they slowdown, stop for a few seconds and go out again, they will have optimum temp in the brakes.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Mercedes' secret revealed
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/L-as ... 05529.html

Interesting... any photos of the said apparatus?

Here is a little gallery:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 72372.html

If one goes through the gallery, it shows that, the same device is being used widely by almost all teams. So what's special there?

[Powy]

The article by AmuS mentions that Mercedes and Renault are using "axle-warmers" to keep the heat (pic 13/30 of the Amus gallery shows that black cover by Mercedes and pic 29/30 the silver one by Renault ). Something that other teams such as Ferrari are missing.

[Nickel]

While red bull do it with the wheel and tire fitted. To me, this would seem the most logical way as the wheel and tire can soak up all the heat as well.

What would be the advantage of heating the hub assembly but not the wheel and tire?

The regs seem to state that the heat blankets can only go to 110 degrees, and this only for one hour. Surely hearing the rim with 200 degree air from the inside would be beneficial to the process? What am I missing?

[basti313]

The regs seem to state that the heat blankets can only go to 110 degrees, and this only for one hour. Surely hearing the rim with 200 degree air from the inside would be beneficial to the process? What am I missing?

The tires have temperature warning prints to avoid heat curing in the garage. I guess they would go on if they heat tire and axle to 200°C.

[Nickel]

The tires have temperature warning prints to avoid heat curing in the garage. I guess they would go on if they heat tire and axle to 200°C.

The tire would never get to 200 to be fair.

Either way, RB are clearly doing it and not running afoul of any rules. My question is, why is the Mercedes way, without wheel and tire mounted, better?

That's what the amus article would have us believe.

[Jolle]

The tires have temperature warning prints to avoid heat curing in the garage. I guess they would go on if they heat tire and axle to 200°C.

The tire would never get to 200 to be fair.

Either way, RB are clearly doing it and not running afoul of any rules. My question is, why is the Mercedes way, without wheel and tire mounted, better?

That's what the amus article would have us believe.

What if, because Mercedes and all the other "drum brake heat teams" have better tire wear because they don't have to heat the brakes trough the tires on track? The extra energy to get them on operating temperature has to come from friction with the road. It's just a case of added energy that doesn't have to come out of the car or tires.

And yes, when you have your brakes on operating temp on the grid, it's better for your heated tires, but only because if you still have cold brakes, it'll cool them down.

[Just_a_fan]

Heating the brakes reduces the chances of them snatching / locking and then flat spotting the tyre.

[basti313]

The tires have temperature warning prints to avoid heat curing in the garage. I guess they would go on if they heat tire and axle to 200°C.

The tire would never get to 200 to be fair.

Either way, RB are clearly doing it and not running afoul of any rules. My question is, why is the Mercedes way, without wheel and tire mounted, better?

That's what the amus article would have us believe.

The tire temp warning is close to the boosting temperature at 120°C to avoid further boosting by the teams in the garage. So the tire does not and must not go to 200°C.
So in my point of view RedBull is limited to some temperature slightly above 120°C to heat axle and rim/tire. On the other hand Merc and Renault can heat the axle up to 200°C without danger of overheating the tires, which are in the blankets at 120°C. This hot axle then keeps the tires at 120°C when the blankets are removed until the pressure is measured by FIA (heating from inside, cooling from outside). On the other hand the RedBull tires will immediately fall below 120°C when the blankets are removed (just cooling from outside).

[basti313]

The tires have temperature warning prints to avoid heat curing in the garage. I guess they would go on if they heat tire and axle to 200°C.

The tire would never get to 200 to be fair.

Either way, RB are clearly doing it and not running afoul of any rules. My question is, why is the Mercedes way, without wheel and tire mounted, better?

That's what the amus article would have us believe.

What if, because Mercedes and all the other "drum brake heat teams" have better tire wear because they don't have to heat the brakes trough the tires on track? The extra energy to get them on operating temperature has to come from friction with the road. It's just a case of added energy that doesn't have to come out of the car or tires.

And yes, when you have your brakes on operating temp on the grid, it's better for your heated tires, but only because if you still have cold brakes, it'll cool them down.

No, just no.
The brake is heating the tire, not the tire heating the brake. The operating temp of the brakes is maintained by breaking, nothing else.
Preheating axle/brake does not have anything to do with the operation of the brakes. In the past (before the tire pressure limit) no one was heating the brakes on the grid, they were sometimes warmed in the garage and then during the introduction lap just by breaking.