Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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henry
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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wesley123 wrote:
28 Aug 2017, 13:23
Zynerji wrote:
27 Aug 2017, 04:19
How much of this is currently done by AI iterations on their super clusters now?

As far as I understand, only CFD is capped by regs, not AI CAD design.
Last year I believe only their barge board package visibly benefited from machine learning(I hate the term AI as it is not true AI), this excluded the elements under the tub, though.

For this year, I think everything regarding bargeboards from the nose tip onwards benefits from machine learning. The base parts with the large bargeboard are probably designed by a human, but any further detail is machine learning. The thing that for me really gave it away was that on a previous iteration of the floor, the second or third outermost tooth was like 10mm shorter than the rest of the surrounding teeth that were all the same length. There is no way that in a limited formula that an engineer would come up with such a insignificant detail.
The developments also weren't done over a course of the season. It went from a regular package to this full-detailed iteration in a single development.

The Ferrari and Mercedes are really out of their league compared to the rest of the field, the other cars don't even come close to the terms of detail.
henry wrote:
27 Aug 2017, 10:24
What do you think the AI would be iterating towards? If the end goal is aerodynamic performance, what measure might it use if it can't use CFD? Or is the AI given the surfaces but iterates to some other goal such as weight or stiffness?

I'm not trying to trip you up here. I too have heard that Mercedes used some form of AI on their W floor and I'm genuinely interested in how it might be employed.
Dumbed down it is essentially just doing what a human does. The difference is that a computer can do calculations much faster, and thus is capable to come up with more detailed solutions. It is machine learning, so it probably knows the aerodynamic rules and has learned their application on the current car. It can see results to a much more detailed degree and can do so much quicker than a human could.
What do you mean by aerodynamic rules? Do you mean bounding boxes and other geometric constraints, or rules on surface division and form or other features that are significant? And how does it measure the success or otherwise of its iterations? Would it use an alternative CFD approach as suggested by Zynerji?
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F1Krof
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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First time I see Merc cutting the outer flaps of the front wing.
https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/statu ... 8269134848
Wroom wroom

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F1NAC
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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F1Krof wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 16:15
First time I see Merc cutting the outer flaps of the front wing.

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/statu ... 8269134848
its not full assembled. Look at little shiny hinges for holding outer flaps

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F1Krof
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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F1NAC wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 16:17
F1Krof wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 16:15
First time I see Merc cutting the outer flaps of the front wing.

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/statu ... 8269134848
its not full assembled. Look at little shiny hinges for holding outer flaps
Yeah, I noticed now.
Wroom wroom

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Via AMuS and @AlbertFabrega
Last edited by Morteza on 31 Aug 2017, 20:48, edited 2 times in total.
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Image

Image

Image

Image

Via @ScarbsTech
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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F1Krof wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 16:48
F1NAC wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 16:17
F1Krof wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 16:15
First time I see Merc cutting the outer flaps of the front wing.

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/statu ... 8269134848
its not full assembled. Look at little shiny hinges for holding outer flaps
Yeah, I noticed now.
The rest of the flaps are in the car :mrgreen:

Image
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Jolle
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Morteza wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 18:07
F1Krof wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 16:48
F1NAC wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 16:17


its not full assembled. Look at little shiny hinges for holding outer flaps
Yeah, I noticed now.
The rest of the flaps are in the car :mrgreen:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIj2bBPXoAEuxSL.jpg
Wonderful to see that they are using a simple piece of foam as a spring/center gizmo on the shifting paddles.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Zynerji wrote:
27 Aug 2017, 04:19
How much of this is currently done by AI iterations on their super clusters now?

As far as I understand, only CFD is capped by regs, not AI CAD design.
Still requires CFD to feed back into the iterations. And a Human being has to set the dimmensions that the AI can adjust. A lot of what you see there is from trial and error in the wind-tunnel too.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Morteza wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 17:16

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/F ... 114828.jpg

Via AMuS and @AlbertFabrega
That picture is the Force India.
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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Just_a_fan wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 20:08
Morteza wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 17:16

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/F ... 114828.jpg

Via AMuS and @AlbertFabrega
That picture is the Force India.
My bad. I removed the photo.
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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With so many excellent photos in your posts, the occasional stray one is entirely forgivable. Keep up the good work! =D>
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Coefficient
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Jolle wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 19:05
Morteza wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 18:07
F1Krof wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 16:48


Yeah, I noticed now.
The rest of the flaps are in the car :mrgreen:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIj2bBPXoAEuxSL.jpg
Wonderful to see that they are using a simple piece of foam as a spring/center gizmo on the shifting paddles.
It probably helps achieve a more analogue feel to it's operation too.
"I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it".

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DiogoBrand
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Coefficient wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 14:13
Jolle wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 19:05
Morteza wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 18:07


The rest of the flaps are in the car :mrgreen:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIj2bBPXoAEuxSL.jpg
Wonderful to see that they are using a simple piece of foam as a spring/center gizmo on the shifting paddles.
It probably helps achieve a more analogue feel to it's operation too.
I don't think that's a good thing. You either have shifted or you haven't, there's no point in having an analog feeling IMO. I believe it's there only for weight and simplicity reasons.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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The foam would be an easy way to customise the feel for the individual driver.One might want to feel a stiffer response to the pull on the paddle, for example. Different foams would give different resistances and would be lighter and simpler to change than a spring within the mechanism. It might just be to stop vibrations giving spurious feelings too.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.