Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[segedunum]

I cannot think anything that is more car-related than the team director specifying they brought six upgrades that earned them 0.3 seconds advantage....

If you look at a selection of the fastest lap times and the top fastest laps in the race then McLaren were still the thick-end of a second away. Nothing really changed. I don't know where they are getting these lap time gain figures from in all honesty.

IIRC, it was Paddy Lowe or some other guy from Mclaren stating that they were not looking at the ride height system as the only way of improvement, since they believed other areas of development could bring them higher yields.

That was Jonathan Neale, and if he really believes that then I'm astonished quite frankly. I think he was just being a bit diversionary though.

So far, Mclaren seems the only top team to have upped their game so far, so we I also don't understand the comments that state that it is easier to make lost ground back from a major screw up like the early MP4-24....

When you're a long way behind and a couple of seconds off the pace, as McLaren were at the beginning of last season, it's relatively easy to make some quick changes to get noticeable increases in speed. Once you are just a few tenths off per lap it gets much more difficult to find big leaps in performance relative to the fastest cars. The 80/20 rule is well known and well proven, and Mike Gasgoyne at Lotus has talked about how there is a lot of improvements they can make to their car that they know will gain them a lot of lap time versus where they are now.

[Hangaku]

If you look at a selection of the fastest lap times and the top fastest laps in the race then McLaren were still the thick-end of a second away. Nothing really changed. I don't know where they are getting these lap time gain figures from in all honesty.

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/ ... _laps.html

Just shy over 6 tenths of a second. And besides, as you so frequently like to state yourself (don't make me post the URLs) THE RACE PACE MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE OF X, Y, and indeed Z. And just to throw another spanner in your works, the very fact that Buemi posted 4th fastest of the day, shows you that lap times in races where traffic is concerned, means absolutely not a thing. If you are now honestly going to post that we can take these lap times as read, then we can also take laps times from practice sessions too.

[segedunum]

Just shy over 6 tenths of a second. And besides, as you so frequently like to state yourself (don't make me post the URLs) THE RACE PACE MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE OF X, Y, and indeed Z.

So what's making you change your tune then?

You can post any URLs you want if that will give you a nice warm massage, but what you're looking for from race performances is whether you can reasonably expect similar performances and speed in future races. Given that McLaren is currently getting all of their speed advantage from one area then current race pace given the tracks we've been at is going to count for very little once we get to European tracks like Barcelona, and they make up the bulk of the season. That's what I have said.

And just to throw another spanner in your works, the very fact that Buemi posted 4th fastest of the day, shows you that lap times in races where traffic is concerned, means absolutely not a thing.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/04/04/m ... test-laps/

They are still slower - even with three or four tenths coming from straight line speed alone. They're nowhere on the top fastest laps produced at any time during the race. Rather than McLaren fans getting upset and looking for crumbs of comfort, maybe this thread can start discussing something useful such as where McLaren intend to get these much vaunted three tenths of a second from, especially now that the FIA have said no, they can't start doing quick and dirty ride height changes between qualifying and races?

[twoshots]

...where McLaren intend to get these three tenths of a second from, especially now that the FIA have said no, they can't start doing quick and dirty ride height changes between qualifying and races?

No, the FIA have said they can't get caught doing ride height changes during park ferme...just like RB 'absolutely guarantee' (TM) they do not have such a 'system'

Ride height adjustments aside, there are a multitude of small gains to be made all over the place, just as is the case every year in every teams development program. Whether McLaren's gains are greater than the other teams remains to be seen.

[Giblet]

Car developments please, or discuss what they might be doing, not what their relative performance is.

Seg your wandering pretty far here, and challenging others to keep going off topic and they are happily obliging. You are not the only one, but you are definitely a constant.

[newbie]

the thing about McLaren's current pace is that their F-duct advantage is set to get eroded once the other top teams implement their own stalling rear wings. If this advantage is worth 0.5 seconds a lap then every team that does introduce their own F-duct will effectively gain 0.5 seconds on the McLaren car.

[ringo]

edit: cleaned up

Concerning improvements for MP4 25, i have an idea for a modification they may make for the snow plow that can give more front grip and better direction change in terms of aero.
I'm gonna draw it up.

[Just_a_fan]

Guys, to keep Giblet and (more importantly) the Mods happy, might I suggest the relative performance discussions move to the new thread at viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8349 to further discuss the relative performance of the MP4-25 and others in the field.

Lots of room for Seg et al to spread their wings...

[ringo]

Look at that gap to the wheel. It needs to be closed.
Interesting hole there on the floor in front the wheel though. Formula1.com says it's an entry to the diffuser, but i am not quite sure.
Looks like it is providing a ram effect as dynamic pressure increases.

[raymondu999]

Where n when was this pic from? That's a lot of pebbles on the car floor. And some pretty seriously destroyed tyres.

[thestig84]

Where n when was this pic from? That's a lot of pebbles on the car floor. And some pretty seriously destroyed tyres.

Im guessing from Button's off in Malaysia Q1 as its the only big trip into the gravel we have for the 25. The tyres are intermediates and look fine apart from some dirt.

[axle]

Look at that gap to the wheel. It needs to be closed.
Interesting hole there on the floor in front the wheel though. Formula1.com says it's an entry to the diffuser, but i am not quite sure.
Looks like it is providing a ram effect as dynamic pressure increases.

You do realise the wheel moves up and down and that if the gap was any smaller to the floor it would rip it apart don't you?

As for the slot, yes it is a Diffuser feed and Ferrari have copied it.

[lkocev]

Why would they want a slot there to feed the diffuser? Is that not just leaking the floor, they try and seal it with vortex generators, why open it there? If that is to feed the diffuser, then it means that air flow is being accelerated above the floor as well as below the floor, is that not the opposite of what teams try to achieve with ground effects? That will decrease the difference in pressure from above to below the floor won't it??

[wesley123]

it has to do with the rear wheel behind it. What i beleive it does is by creating this channel of air it stops wheel air flowing in thus increasing diffuser efficinecy

[ringo]

Look at that gap to the wheel. It needs to be closed.
Interesting hole there on the floor in front the wheel though. Formula1.com says it's an entry to the diffuser, but i am not quite sure.
Looks like it is providing a ram effect as dynamic pressure increases.

You do realise the wheel moves up and down and that if the gap was any smaller to the floor it would rip it apart don't you?

As for the slot, yes it is a Diffuser feed and Ferrari have copied it.

yes I realize; but it can be closer still. Visually that floor wont touch the wheel if it moves even 3 inches up, and i don't think the suspension travel is that much.