Lotus T127 Cosworth

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Post Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:22 pm

Its unlikely from a practical point of view to fit the Renault power train to the car this yea, but if it were, it would probably be quite a step. The Renault engine while probably no more powerful, is almost certainly more drivable than the cosworth, plus it has better fuel consumption. Then the gearbox\hydraulic set up will be certainly stiffer\lighter than the Xtrac system, not to mention devoid of the reliability issues that have plagued the team.

Then we need to remember that the gearbox casing was developed by Dallara for the Campos\HRT project. Not to be little Dallara undoubted skills, but I'd say the rear suspension geometry that is incorporated into the Renault gear case would be more effective than the Dallara\Xtrac set up. so a benefit in traction and tyre wear would be likely.
scarbs
 
Joined: 8 Oct 2003
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Post Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:24 pm

do we know if lotus is bad in terms of traction or rear tyre wear? it is a sfe bet that they got more wrong than right admittedly with that sort of gaps towrds the front runners.But if their front was like the Merc saturated and unresponsive..the effect of a improved rear would possibly not really show much gain.
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

Post Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:37 pm

astracrazy wrote:if the new renault engine and gearbox was put into this years car, roughly, how much extra time would it be worth?


Thats a tough one.

In terms of driveability, alot.
In terms of traction, track dependant.
In temrs of fuel consumption, comparible now.
In terms of how relyable, much to gain.
In terms of useable torque band and power, better torque but probably less power going on figures from the start of the season.
In terms of gearbox pickup points for suspension, probably more sympothetic to the Xtrac one.

In terms of taking all the above into concideration, you could be talking arround 0.2 to 0.3 a lap for each of those, add that up and you coul;d be talking about maybes 1.5 seconds roughly. Taking the fact the T127 is a second to second and a half off the pace now, you could be putting them right into the mid feild battle with a car that isnt built for pure speed.

Add all that baseline data, plus the Renault RS27, gearbox and KERS they will have access to, plus the Mark Smith factor with Gascogyne and the new Lotus aero team, you could say that will get them 2.5 to 3.2 seconds a lap faster than they currently are, but if you take into concideration that all teams will take up to second off their lap times at the end of 2010 to the start of 2011, id say that Team Lotus will be arround where the P10 to P16 battle currently is, easily.

But all is objecture and speculation till we see what is what in 2011 pre-season testing.
ESPImperium
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:00 am

ive heard that they are building a wind tunnel at the factory next year and you can
do a tour of the factory

conni
conni
 
Joined: 7 Jan 2010

Post Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:04 am

let me take a different approach to it:
Look at Williams vs Renault in recent races and you can see there´s not much in it perfromance wise..So we can drop everything engine related from the equation.
This leaves a gearbox and some gearbox pickuppoints as possible performance advantages in my view.
simply adding up tenths in this speculative combo will never ever meet reality when we do not know what the real restrictors of performance for the lotus are.
The whole year everyone is sure that Aero is the all dominant area ..the question here would be :is lotus prepared and able to do a aero programme as significant as renault to make us of the degree of freedom provided by the renault rearend..
Obviously the lotus chassis is deliberately conservative is it even possible or useful to have the renault rear we don´t know.for sure the combo is lighter ...and this might bring them closer to the weight limit ..we do not even know if and how much ballast they got....so to me I´m very doubtful the conversion itself is a big step in time ,but it will offer a lot in terms of development paths that are open to them and it should give them reliability in the gearbox and hydraulic area.
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

Post Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:47 pm

At last weekend's Italian GP, when Jarno Trulli came to a halt due to another gearbox failure, team principal Tony Fernandes tweeted "I hate this gearbox", and moments later "Oh well, it just makes decisions easier".

to many problems....?
Regard,
Nik Wan
Mechanical Designer
CATIA V5/ Solidworks/ Inventor/ AutoCAD
mycadcae
 
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Location: Shah Alam Malaysia

Post Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:18 pm

Email I sent to Lotus early in the season

I understand that Lotus F1 has a problem with gearbox shifting.
I would be pleased to give an opinion if I had the relevent detail.
I believe both Williams and McLaren have experienced gearbox problems with either missed or slow shifts.
In the past, I have experienced a reduced effectiveness and speed of gearchanges problem, when improvments were made to increase the speed of performance shifts. I am aware that changes have been made to the selector spools and mechanism by some gearbox companies this year, so perhaps the problem is in these components.
However, I could of course be completely wrong.
I live close to Hingham and I would like to see the extra second a lap in Spain that I think should be possible.

Of course aero is the main area of potential improvement, which is why they are building a wind tunnel.
autogyro
 
Joined: 4 Oct 2009

Post Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:51 pm

autogyro wrote:Email I sent to Lotus early in the season

I understand that Lotus F1 has a problem with gearbox shifting.
I would be pleased to give an opinion if I had the relevent detail.
I believe both Williams and McLaren have experienced gearbox problems with either missed or slow shifts.
In the past, I have experienced a reduced effectiveness and speed of gearchanges problem, when improvments were made to increase the speed of performance shifts. I am aware that changes have been made to the selector spools and mechanism by some gearbox companies this year, so perhaps the problem is in these components.
However, I could of course be completely wrong.
I live close to Hingham and I would like to see the extra second a lap in Spain that I think should be possible.

Of course aero is the main area of potential improvement, which is why they are building a wind tunnel.

Bet you didn't get an answer! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
gilgen
 
Joined: 3 Apr 2010

Post Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:33 pm

Better than when I wrote USF1 about their practice sessions in Atlanta. A few weeks later they went out of business!
volarchico
 
Joined: 26 Feb 2010

Post Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:36 pm

volarchico wrote:Better than when I wrote USF1 about their practice sessions in Atlanta. A few weeks later they went out of business!

so you made them quit? :roll:
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

Post Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:52 pm

marcush. wrote:so you made them quit? :roll:


No, I meant I wanted to go see practice so I wrote them and then they never replied because they shut their doors for good.
volarchico
 
Joined: 26 Feb 2010

Post Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:38 pm

I highly doubt that Lotus will build a tunnel at Hingham, as Tony Fernandes said that he would either look for a facility outside the track at Sepang, but has now seen that that would be logistically imposible with most of the testing and racing done in Europe.

This led him down the road to purchace the team Lotus naming rights. As this dosnt only include the naming rights for the team, it also includes the land surrounding the Classic team Lotus workshop, whitch from reports that i have heard will get demolished and will be included in a brand new state of the art facility that will arguably be up there with the best in the sport. The team that has been asked to look at the first stages of the new building are the same set of archetects that designed the MTC (McLaren Technology Centre) in Woking.

The other rumor was that Fernandes was to buy Lotus Cars off Proton and the Malasian government and develop Lotus Cars, side by side with the racing team over about 5 facilities all in the UK. The Hingham site if the Lotus HQ idea comes into reality, will be used as the base for Team Lotus GP2 (If entry for 2011 is granted) and for the Lotus Junior Team that competes in World Series.

I think that Tony Fernandes is a man with a plan for Lotus, and over the next 5-7 years Team Lotus will be a team that will move forward and be up there with the best in the sport. Im giving the Team Lotus time to come good and have a fruitful new beginning in motorsport.
ESPImperium
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:43 pm

volarchico wrote:
marcush. wrote:so you made them quit? :roll:


No, I meant I wanted to go see practice so I wrote them and then they never replied because they shut their doors for good.


I think they must've thought you were a plainclothes investigator for the FIA :mrgreen:
失败者找理由,成功者找方法
raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:32 pm

gilgen wrote:
autogyro wrote:Email I sent to Lotus early in the season

I understand that Lotus F1 has a problem with gearbox shifting.
I would be pleased to give an opinion if I had the relevent detail.
I believe both Williams and McLaren have experienced gearbox problems with either missed or slow shifts.
In the past, I have experienced a reduced effectiveness and speed of gearchanges problem, when improvments were made to increase the speed of performance shifts. I am aware that changes have been made to the selector spools and mechanism by some gearbox companies this year, so perhaps the problem is in these components.
However, I could of course be completely wrong.
I live close to Hingham and I would like to see the extra second a lap in Spain that I think should be possible.

Of course aero is the main area of potential improvement, which is why they are building a wind tunnel.

Bet you didn't get an answer! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Actualy I did.
autogyro
 
Joined: 4 Oct 2009

Post Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:20 pm

autogyro wrote:I live close to Hingham


So do or have you worked at Hethel if you live near Hingham? I have.
- Axle
axle
 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: Norfolk, UK

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