Toro Rosso STR6 Ferrari

[raymondu999]

With STR now (in terms of the technical department) independent of RBR tech, do you guys think the STR6 will be based on their STR5 design, or the RB6?

[wesley123]

STR no doubt.

[raymondu999]

Why though? Using the RB6 as a base would have proved a far more competitive base to work off from rather than the STR5. That was my point. Sure, the STR5 was ok and it's got characteristics the current two drivers know and have learnt to set up. But surely Dietrich Mateschitz wouldn't object to the few extra bucks that he could get by using the RB6 as a base for the STR6... no?

[Giblet]

Does anyone really think that str is anything more than a stable to house drivers for Red Bull? They will produce their own average chassis again and apply weak development all year.

They couldn't even get an fduct to work so help from rbr was all but nonexistent.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Does anyone really think that str is anything more than a stable to house drivers for Red Bull? They will produce their own average chassis again and apply weak development all year.

They couldn't even get an fduct to work so help from rbr was all but nonexistent.

Nope. I dont see them doing much if anything. We may even see them being engulfed by the new teams.

[Tamburello]

Why though? Using the RB6 as a base would have proved a far more competitive base to work off from rather than the STR5. That was my point. Sure, the STR5 was ok and it's got characteristics the current two drivers know and have learnt to set up. But surely Dietrich Mateschitz wouldn't object to the few extra bucks that he could get by using the RB6 as a base for the STR6... no?

But they are not allowed to use the RB6 design since they became independent manufacturers, are they? From what I gather, they had Intellectual Property rights to the RB5/STR4 design and so could use it as a base for this years car but have no such privilege with regards the RB6, but I could be wrong?

[gridwalker]

We would have to see how the regulations are phrased as I believe there is nothing to prevent teams from purchasing consultation rights and techniocal data from external contractors (e.g. Force India/Lotus working with Aerolab) as long as the actual design work is performed in house.

I reckon that this is a loophole big enough to hang yourself.

[donskar]

Does anyone really think that str is anything more than a stable to house drivers for Red Bull? They will produce their own average chassis again and apply weak development all year.

They couldn't even get an fduct to work so help from rbr was all but nonexistent.

Agree, but I don't feel as negative as you seem to (sorry if I misread you). I think STR is a great way to break in young talents without putting too much pressure on them.

Technically, Georgio Ascanelli has gotten some good reviews (Ferrari tried to get him), so I don't disparage their quality of tech talent -- quantity could be the issue -- and budget.

As for NOT just using the RBR chassis, I think Red Bull should be commended for following the spirit of the rule with STR.

BTW: wasn't it about 2 years ago that Red Bull said they would sell STR?

[wesley123]

BTW: wasn't it about 2 years ago that Red Bull said they would sell STR?

You cant sell anything without an buyer!

[Intego]

BTW: wasn't it about 2 years ago that Red Bull said they would sell STR?

This year (about September 30th) it was rumoured, too. When Gerhard Berger sold his 50 % in the end of 2008, Mateschitz wanted to sell the whole team till 2010. Now the price is supposed to be only half (30 million Dollar).

But it seems, that he doesn't find a buyer with sustained effort (even though or even since Jaques Villeneuve and Durango were named as suitors).

Sources (german): motorsport-magazin.com,
[url]http://www.formel1.de/de/15/Toro-Rosso-Verkauf+für+Mateschitz+nicht+eilig%3A+Der+Käufer+muss+eine+Zukunft+garantieren/newsID/71724[/url]

Relevance to this thread? Mateschitz stated in the past that Red Bull couldn't afford two teams when they aren't allowed to use the same chassis. He won't invest toomuch in STR, therefore I say that we won't see miracles from them.

[donskar]

@Intego -- no miracles from STR, but another decent car for the mid-field. Better than HRT . . .

[donskar]

@Intego -- no miracles from STR, but another decent car for the mid-field. Better than HRT . . . Sort of a better financed Minardi?

[scarbs]

STR have no rights to the RB6 design info, the STR5 was al their own work, albeit starting from the RB5 based 09 car. Even through last year they had their own independant R&D team, with Designers, Aerodynamicists, CFD, model makers and wind tunnel people. By the seasons end they STR5 was quite a different car to the launch version, so a lot of independant thinking goes on there.

[Intego]

As DDD is banned next year and RBR had the fastest car without DDD in the beginning of 2009, wouldn't it make sense to throw away this year's development (which wasn't that effective) and start again on the RB5 base?
Stretch the RB5, put in the bigger tank, try to use the 2009 KERS (that never ran) et voilà, a cheap and effective challenger is (re)born.
Since STR is only a talent training team it could be wise to save money.

I'm no expert and hence don't know how the new tyres would fit to the car. But, on the other hand, STR would have some free resources to develop the moveable RW.

[Intego]

@Intego -- no miracles from STR, but another decent car for the mid-field. Better than HRT . . . Sort of a better financed Minardi?

Hm, right. Minardi's estimated budget was about 40 million dollars in 2004. Toro Rosso's estimated budget was nearly 100 million Euros in 2009 (about $140m at that time). But that was an increase of about 30–50 %, because they had to build up a new new team because of the new 2010 rules (independent car).

Next year's budget is to be €70m, that's even less than FI has (€80m). Plus one has to consider that everything is getting more expensive.

Based on the fact that all digits are estimated and the sources (partly german) can be at fault. Please correct me, if I got my facts wrong. Thx.
German Wikipedia
Flagworld, AMS and other
MoSpo-Mag and again MoSpo-Mag