Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:31 pm

Undoubtedly the single most fiercely debated thing in Formula One for the past two weeks is the crash between Sebastian Vettel and Narain Karthikeyan on lap 46 of the 2012 Malaysian Grand Prix. Both in the paddock, as well as in the online communities, no one seems to see eye-to-eye on anything, both regarding who's at fault for the crash, and whether or not Vettel's angry gestures and post-race comments were 'champion-worthy'. The fact there was such a lack of consensus, with people apparantly seeing completely different things, I wanted to clear things up once and for all.

In this article, I will answer three questions:
1) Did Vettel move towards Karthikeyan?
2) Did Karthikeyan move towards Vettel?
3) Did Vettel leave Karthikeyan enough room?

Analysis of the crash:
The confusion for who's at fault and what happened, seems to come from the fact that there are two camera angles from the crash, that each seem to tell a different story. The camera angle from the back makes it seem that Vettel cut across on Karthikeyan, while the camera angle from the front suggests it's Karthikeyan who turns in to Vettel. Now the problem with the rear angle is that it's an angled moving shot, with no static objects in the background to tell us their absolute positions. The front angle however, does provide a static background to analyse the driver's movements.

In the stills, the green line is a control line, following the second L of the blue Allianz board, as well as the border between the green and the white tire wall in the background. As the camera pans a little, we need to adjust the frames so that they still have the same background as a reference. The blue line indicates Vettel's position out of the corner, while the pink line indicates Karthikeyan's position out of the corner.

Image

Frames 1 to 3 show Vettel and Karthikeyan both going in a straight line. However, from frame 4 to frame 6, Karthikeyan clearly starts moving towards Vettel, who keeps going straight. In frame 7, Vettel actually moves away from Karthikeyan, who in turn keeps moving towards Vettel until they collide between frame 9 and frame 10.

As far as Vettel leaving Karthikeyan enough room, it may seem in the first few frames that Karthikeyan will run out of road. However, in frame 5, if you draw the orange line from Karthikeyan's outer tires forward, he has enough room. Between frame 5 and the collision between frame 9 and 10, Karthikeyan still moves over half a car length.

So that answers the three questions:
1) Did Vettel move towards Karthikeyan?
No, from the moment both drivers were through the corner, Vettel kept going in a straight line. He did not move over.

2) Did Karthikeyan move towards Vettel?
Yes, as clearly shown, Karthikeyan actually moves over towards Vettel.

3) Did Vettel leave Karthikeyan enough room?
Yes. Although Karthikeyan was initially going to run out of road, in frame 5, he did not need to move over any further in order to have enough road. However, he still moved over another half car length towards Vettel until they collided.

In conclusion:
The camera angles made it a little unclear on which driver moved how, when and where. With apparant equal blame, the stewards' decision to give Karthikeyan a penalty seemed very odd. While it can still be argued if the penalty was deserved or not, and while Karthikeyan no doubt did not hit Vettel on purpose, a factual analysis clearly shows that it was Narain Karthikeyan who was solely responsible for running into Sebastian Vettel.
Always open to learn new things and gain new insights.
Defender against the double standards, it's just bad form.
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mnmracer
 
Joined: 17 Sep 2011

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:38 pm

My memory - "Vettel era" thread - enabled me to skip this entire post save for the last sentence, because I knew exactly what that last sentence would be.
bhallg2k
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:47 pm

I cannot agree completely. If you look better you will see that Karthikeyan IS following racing line, while Vettel is crossing over it.

Although I agree to some extent that Narain is to blame, those would be my answers to your questions:

1) Did Vettel move towards Karthikeyan?
Yes. Although he is going straight he is going in the opposite way all drivers are going on that straight. All cars are going right while Vettel is not.

2) Did Karthikeyan move towards Vettel?
Yes. He is following the racing line while Vettel, who is not, is still too close

3) Did Vettel leave Karthikeyan enough room?
No. If Karthikeyan stayed on straight course, parallel with Vettel's he would run out of track and find himself on wet grass.
Cuky
 
Joined: 7 Dec 2011

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:50 pm

Sometimes, a man's just got to spend two bitter weeks carving a nice big stick so he can come back and give that horse one last good whollup on its decomposing noggin.
Pup
 
Joined: 8 May 2008
Location: Under the bed.

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:00 pm

Seems all we need now is an analysis that shows that the finger is a wave and the gherkin comments were a dinner suggestion.
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Spankyham
 
Joined: 17 Dec 2011

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:12 pm

@Cuky
Karthikeyan is the one being overtaken, thus he needs to give space to Vettel. Vettel has the right to the racing line as long as he leaves Karthikeyan enough space on the racing track, which he does.

@bhall, spany
If you can't respond with a normal answer, might as well not respond at all.
Always open to learn new things and gain new insights.
Defender against the double standards, it's just bad form.
Don not tell lies, you'll get me upset.
mnmracer
 
Joined: 17 Sep 2011

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:16 pm

Mine is a "normal" answer; it's just not the one you wanted.

Everything in context.
bhallg2k
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:23 pm

I can't understand why this topic is being brought up again. What a load of time wasted on an analysis of an incident that should be forgotten. And why make a thread out of it? IIRC this was argued fiercely in great detail on the Malaysia Race thread which was then locked.
Maelstrom
 
Joined: 26 Mar 2012

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:24 pm

You're beating a dead horse. Image
Why?
In my opinion and every person I've talked with agree Vettle cut back and caused the contact. As can be seen in your pictures he could have waited but he wanted to be a little jerk like lames on the road and cut back in close to send a message to Narain.
There are two things in this world that take no skill: 1. Spending other people’s money and 2. Dismissing an idea.
strad
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:40 pm

Well if anyone listened to what Narain said things would be more clear on the incident.

He hit the white line, rear end came around so he had to catch it but Vettel was there so they collided.

= Race incident.

Vettel could have left more space, Narain could have taken it easier.
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Nando
 
Joined: 10 Mar 2012

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:41 pm

strad wrote:You're beating a dead horse. Image
Why?
In my opinion and every person I've talked with agree Vettle cut back and caused the contact. As can be seen in your pictures he could have waited but he wanted to be a little jerk like lames on the road and cut back in close to send a message to Narain.


Wasn't going to reply, but I don't think Vettel was trying to send a message. He was just expecting NK to get completely out of his way and was going to take his line back over to the racing line rather than run off line to go around NK. Arrogant and with a sense of entitlement quite probably, but not sending a message.
myurr
 
Joined: 20 Mar 2008

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:47 pm

Arrogant and with a sense of entitlement quite probably,

Same thing...He slammed the door...that was a message.
But the FIA see it otherwise and penalized Narain rather than their favored son. It's over..Even Narain has gotten past it.
Last edited by strad on Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are two things in this world that take no skill: 1. Spending other people’s money and 2. Dismissing an idea.
strad
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:59 pm

The whole argument kills itself just by looking at picture numbers 6 and 7

Look at the ANGLE of Vettels car compared to everyone elses, not just position.

Just looking at picture 7, you can see that even if Karthikeyan were to stick all the way to edge of the track, Vettels current angle on exiting the turn was on a collision course with Karthikeyan.

Vettels car is angled towards cutting Karthikeyan off in pictures 6 and 7.

These guys are going 100mph+ with milliseconds to think and as far as Karthikeyan knows, Vettel is going to continue till he ran him out of road, so he made the decision to try and get to the other side of Vettels car.

Tbh, just looking at Vettels onboard cam shows him closing in on the edge of the track.


On further inspection, you can see Karthikeyans original line (the purple one) is directing him towards the rumble strip on the edge of the track he's already next to, meanwhile he's got Vettel going "straight" across the front of his car.

It doesn't matter that Vettel kept going in a "straight" line after he exit the corner, it's the fact that his angle on the exit was heading "straight" across the front of another cars line and wasn't going to leave any room.
Last edited by GrizzleBoy on Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
GrizzleBoy
 
Joined: 5 Mar 2012

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:01 pm

Did anyone make popcorn?
Pup
 
Joined: 8 May 2008
Location: Under the bed.

Post Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:09 pm

Pup wrote:Did anyone make popcorn?


I can just tell this is going to be another long, argumentative thread. :roll:

The race is over. NK was penalised. Vettel was very uncivilised.

Leave it at that.
Maelstrom
 
Joined: 26 Mar 2012

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