2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[ME4ME]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamil ... o-red-bull

When asked by media in Italy about if it would be a good idea for Mercedes to supply Red Bull with engines, Hamilton said: "If we are serious about winning the world championship, probably not.

"Red Bull are a great team, but it's like giving Ferrari our engines."

He added: "We don't really need it. There is no financial benefit. We are good where we are."

Wasn't he the one who said he didn't want to dominate, and easily win from pole all the time, when Vettel was winning race after race back in 2013? I think he has changed, and now much rather prefers an easy weekend and a fun lifestyle rather than mimicking Senna, giving maximum effort all year and battle for the title. Not saying he is wrong in that, it's just ironic how things change over time..

[Mastudio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFlQ4zpEKDQ

[lio007]

Longrun comparison FP1.
Merc a lot faster (but we don't know fuel loads), RIC quite consistent, KVY a bit slower, PER pretty much on the same level as RIC (if not faster)

[Andres125sx]

I dream that one day we'll see a Formula 1 car lap break Montoya's 1:19.525

4.5 seconds off that last year in Qualifying.

I don´t get that obsession to improve laptimes, really. That´s too easy, just a matter of rules

They´re doing similar laptimes using a lot less fuel, to me that´s impressive.

I´d like to see faster cars each season, but I assume we reached the point where no further development might be allowed because cars reached the max a driver can handle for a sustained period (around 5Gs), and also the max tracks can handle safety wise. Now they only can limit the car itself to allow further develpment without laptimes improvement. It´s the same challenge, but in a different way.

[PlatinumZealot]

Mercedes are really running things here. Wow.. 1.5 up on ferrari.

My God.

Monza is a track where recharging the battery is focus. You don't get enough braking zones to get an easy charge. They must have found a way to charge using excess ice power (and hence fuel) in the traction limited zones. You dump more fuel there and you get more battery charge to use for the rest of the straight. Sort of a rapid switch in mguh harvest and deploy in a single straight. It is a thin line between traction control i think but guess since it is not used to control wheel spin directly the system is legal. Maybe the controller is reading the ground speed and the engine revs. Any slip detected out the corner the mguh is adjust to harvest more. I dunno... something like that.. My point is mercedes has more battery energy over the lap now.

[bergie88]

Mercedes are really running things here. Wow.. 1.5 up on ferrari.

My God.

Monza is a track where recharging the battery is focus. You don't get enough braking zones to get an easy charge. They must have found a way to charge using excess ice power (and hence fuel) in the traction limited zones. You dump more fuel there and you get more battery charge to use for the rest of the straight. Sort of a rapid switch in mguh harvest and deploy in a single straight. It is a thin line between traction control i think but guess since it is not used to control wheel spin directly the system is legal. Maybe the controller is reading the ground speed and the engine revs. Any slip detected out the corner the mguh is adjust to harvest more. I dunno... something like that.. My point is mercedes has more battery energy over the lap now.

Since the introduction of these rules I am thinking about this possibility. It is practically the same as traction control, but maybe they found a smart way to circumvent the rules. Btw, I think you mean MGU-K instead of MGU-H, because the MGU-K is directly coupled to the driveshaft, so when the ICE is delivering positive torque it can easily use some torque from the ICE to generated electricity. However, the energy flow from the MGU-K to the battery is limited, so this might give a benefit, but not a huge one.

I still think that the deployment of the MGU-H is where Mercedes has the biggest advantage. Their component sizes and control strategy is just better optimized than the rest of the manufacturers, which results in the most energy over a lap to propel the car.

[KeiKo403]

Since the introduction of these rules I am thinking about this possibility. It is practically the same as traction control, but maybe they found a smart way to circumvent the rules. Btw, I think you mean MGU-K instead of MGU-H, because the MGU-K is directly coupled to the driveshaft, so when the ICE is delivering positive torque it can easily use some torque from the ICE to generated electricity.

So if it's taking eccess power from the ICE under acceleration could this go someway to explaining the poor starts we've seen?

[i70q7m7ghw]

Does any have speed trap data?

[Morteza]

Does any have speed trap data?

This is what I found:
https://twitter.com/Albrodpul/status/639776793801662465

[ChrisF1]

I dream that one day we'll see a Formula 1 car lap break Montoya's 1:19.525

4.5 seconds off that last year in Qualifying.

I don´t get that obsession to improve laptimes, really. That´s too easy, just a matter of rules

They´re doing similar laptimes using a lot less fuel, to me that´s impressive.

They're not doing similar laptimes, they're 3-6 seconds off.

As for the obesession with improving laptimes, we don't want to see lap records as such, we want to see drivers pushing the car to the edge. A car capable of doing a 79 second lap will take more balls than an 84 second car after all.

[bergie88]

Since the introduction of these rules I am thinking about this possibility. It is practically the same as traction control, but maybe they found a smart way to circumvent the rules. Btw, I think you mean MGU-K instead of MGU-H, because the MGU-K is directly coupled to the driveshaft, so when the ICE is delivering positive torque it can easily use some torque from the ICE to generated electricity.

So if it's taking eccess power from the ICE under acceleration could this go someway to explaining the poor starts we've seen?

This idea did not came up in my mind yet but yes, this is a very good possibility. In the past traction control and launch control were closed loop control systems, adjusting engine power by the grip level of the tires. Maybe they are approaching this nowadays by estimating the tire parameters to find the perfect power at the start. However, information on for example tire parameters is forbidden now so the drivers have to do it by themselves, possibly explaining the poor starts.

[Morteza]

[i70q7m7ghw]

Thanks Morteza. So Merc aren't crazy in a straight line, perhaps they are making all the time up in acceleration?

[Just_a_fan]

Which means nothing.

I agree, they are probably running at 80% it will be 2,5 s in Q2 or 3 .

They were running the "test" engine which appears to be worth nearly 1s a lap at Monza already. This bodes well for those who want to see big lap time improvements next year. Not so good for those who want an end to Mercedes's engine domination.

[SiLo]

Depends if any of those guys got a tow or not. I imagine most teammates to be fairly close in terms of top speeds as the teams run their cars with similar downforce levels.