Monaco GP 2009 - Monte Carlo

[transporter]

What is kind of tyre of Kimi car when start? Because I saw his tyre was damaged sooner than Massa, Button & Barichello.

[ben_watkins]

What is kind of tyre of Kimi car when start? Because I saw his tyre was damaged sooner than Massa, Button & Barichello.

I think they started on the Prime tyre

[ISLAMATRON]

What is kind of tyre of Kimi car when start? Because I saw his tyre was damaged sooner than Massa, Button & Barichello.

I think they started on the Prime tyre

Yep, he started on the softs and pitted on lap 15, even though he was fueled the same as Kovi, who pitted on lap 22, that forced him to run a long second stint of 38 laps again on the softs and then 25 laps on the supersofts, longer than what I think was their intended lifespan

HE may have pitted early because he felt he was being held up by Rubans.

[donskar]

Great spectacle. The world's greatest drivers in the world's most technically advanced parade floats. Dead dull race.

I know some of my values are Jurassic, but I will never accept that racing's overwhelming goal is anyhting other than to win, to be first, not to rejoice over finishing eighth and getting "an all-important point." In that sense, this year has been a disaster for F1.

Those of you who hated Ferrari's dominance during the so-called "Schumi Years".... Is it OK for Brawn to dominate because they're English? Look up "Jingoism" in your friendly local neighborhood dictionary. And please, no more "underdog." We know the car was developed with the money, men, and materiel of Honda.

I watched (most of) the Indy 500 later. It is the future of F1 through Max's eyes: huge field of 99.9% identical cars, with a mere handful capable of winning, the others make-weights. There were not 33 drivers in the field who deserved to be there -- and I fear an F1 field of significantly more than 20 will bring us back to the buy-a-drive poseurs of the 60's and 70's. Anyone remember George Eaton in a BRM?

Come to think of it, there are far more cars capable of winning an IndyCar race than an F1 race. Barring mechanical problems or a crash caused by another driver (I do not want to see either) there is no reason to believe Brawn won't win every race this year. Remember the year McLaren won every F1 race except Monza?

The main discussion point at my house during the race was whether or not Button will give Barichello a win or two this year, as Schumi did on occasion.

[Miguel]

HE may have pitted early because he felt he was being held up by Rubans.

That's what I thought. I've just checked F1matrix and found that, after catching Rubens, kimi's laptimes were 18.7, 19.7, 20.5 and 19.4. The next was likely to be 19.4 too. After pitting, with fuel for many laps, his laptimes were 19.3, 18.3 and 18.1. The thing is he was being held up by Rubens almost 3s a lap (times compared to Rosberg), and had he waited the additional 2 laps needed behind Rubens... I don't know. Even with 40 laps of fuel, he only lost 6 tenths in two laps. Had Rubens stayed for longer, he would have gone past him.

It's also true that Kimi had the perfect timing to hold Alonso, who would have else probably gone past Rosberg after his second stop (traffic with Kimi to the brim meant traffic with Fisichella later on).

@Donskar

Here in Spain we got the luck of Pedro Mtz de la Rosa commentary, and he was in awe of Brawn GP's stability. He likes to laugh at their radio system, but he admires that car deeply. You can see that both drivers need not fight much with that car, gaining a ton of confidence.

Anyway, I think that the main difference from 2004 or 2002 is that there are some hints that the gap is decreasing, and most people hope that extra resources put by McLaren and Ferrari will give more variety later on the season. In my mind, only an extremely unlikely rebirth by McLaren *and* Ferrari *and* Renault could take the title from Button.

[gridwalker]

Those of you who hated Ferrari's dominance during the so-called "Schumi Years".... Is it OK for Brawn to dominate because they're English?

No, it's not, but it is nice to see teams other than the usual suspects up at the top of the podium.

I'm not going to play the underdog card, as they're blatantly not the Cinderella story the media likes to portray, but their performance has come out of the blue for many fans agound the globe so I'm happy to let them enjoy their moment in the sun.

My main problem with the Schumi years, was that they were exactly that - YEARS.

I don't see Brawn's dominance leading to 5 consecutive championships (at least, I hope it won't) so let's see what happens when more normal service is resumed at the next race.

I'm hoping that RBR step up a gear, as I've been a bit of a Vettel fanboy ever since seeing him outperform Schumi in the Nations Cup at the 2007 Race of Champions ...

[dumbdave]

I agree with Gridwalker, I don't think we will see a continuation of the Brawn dominance in coming years, possibly not even throughout the season, it's been said before, but its harder to find gains when you are the fastest out there than it is for others to play catch up. The tenths of seconds improvements will come more easily to ferrari/mclaren/renault than a new improvement will to Brawn or RBR. You can see the dramatic improvement for ferrari already, although monaco is a bit of an oddity compared to the conventional tracks & might be distorting that a little.

I want to see the RBR against the Brawn in Turkey/Silverstone once they get their DDD figured out properly. The RB5 has already shown its pace without and its awesome grip in the rain if the new diffuser integrates well and gives them the improvement everyone is talking about they may take the technological lead over Brawn.

[natef1]

Great spectacle. The world's greatest drivers in the world's most technically advanced parade floats. Dead dull race.

I know some of my values are Jurassic, but I will never accept that racing's overwhelming goal is anyhting other than to win, to be first, not to rejoice over finishing eighth and getting "an all-important point." In that sense, this year has been a disaster for F1.

Out of pure interest (and not knowing you), and given what you've just written, what would you make of Bernie's proposed medal system?

Those of you who hated Ferrari's dominance during the so-called "Schumi Years".... Is it OK for Brawn to dominate because they're English? Look up "Jingoism" in your friendly local neighborhood dictionary. And please, no more "underdog." We know the car was developed with the money, men, and materiel of Honda.

Really, this is quite an assumption that all English people like, firstly, Button for winning because he's English. I think the [English] media would have you believe that everyone here loves the socks off him because of their gushing and slightly hysterical appraisal of him this season. They would also have you believe he is as good as Schumacher (Not Ralf, EJ ). And they would have you believe that Hamilton is doing a pretty bad job.

All of it is untrue, in my opinion.

Due to the very nature of being British (A nature which I hotly detest), we have an unparalleled ability to build our castles and destroy them (probably all the sand), and the metaphor can be applied to any such people in the public spotlight. Unfortunately our sporting competitors are probably most subject to this constant clap-and-shoot policy.

This is what has happened to Jenson, he started off as the biggest castle, now he has been the lump of sand on the beach for several years that is covered in slime. Nobody except his staunchest supporters wanted to know about him. It was presumed he would retire or move out of F1. And so to the journalists this story has been their dream, failing to really capture the truth of Honda's development process in 2008. This is a wider reaching neglect of journalistic values, and it is an interesting topic, but I will not go into it here.

Now that he is back in the limelight it provides extra fodder for what was already a determined campaign to repatriate the Honda team as British once it fell into the hands of Ross Brawn and Nick Fry. Button's personal success has been additional ammunition as yet again our newspapers and such can put him back on his pedestal.

Add into this the ideology of being an underdog - both team and driver - and we Brits (or at least, the journalistic sections) simper over how this has become a shining beacon for British values of "determination" and once again attributing it all down to "a miraculous recovery from the brink of despair".

As we well know, it was Honda's money, Honda's staff, and Honda's commitment (at the time) to motorsport that developed this car into what it is today.

The challenge will be now keeping these Brawn cars at the front for 2010. If we presume they build an average car, or fail to evolve it such, then you can guarantee Button will be that crumbled sand castle once again.

Sorry for the long post, I just had things to say

[Ciro Pabón]

Well said, natef, I read that at once.

I think that Button is a great driver, a few around here refuse to go beyond saying that some drivers are slightly superior to others, and then, not all days, because the main difference is in the cars.

Some around here do not like pedestals, podiums are enough for them.

Some people in this forum don't debass drivers neither deify them.

So, no slime on Button to me. After all he was the guy that decided to stay at Honda. Smart? I don't know. Stubborn? You bet. Did he protest and complain when everything seemed lost? I don't remember him saying anything beyond "well, we'll see what we can do".

Yes, Honda money, Honda personnel and Honda technology. However, British stubbornness, British "never give up" and British "we can do it by ourselves".

Some other teams, drivers and team directors might have thrown the towel and look elsewhere for an employement, instead of risking "limb and life" in a team that had lost its north. That's why it is a Cinderella story, specially because Button AND Barrichello seem nice "blokes" who haven't "smeared" their victories on anybody's face.

Will Button say something wrong? Well, I think so (at least, I know I definitely would say something improper, sooner or later). Will the british tabloid press post it for the world to watch and will they interprete it in the worst of ways? Well... I don't know. That is the part of british "national soul" I don't get very well. Or perhaps I do: envy also exists here.

[Scotracer]

Button seems very sincere in his happiness at winning races. No corporate speel like Hamilton - he just shouts at the top of his voice like a true racer should.

I never really had an opinion of Button prior to this season. The quality of the machinery he's been in command of has varied from the Honda RA108 to the BAR 006 over the years and I could never get a true bearing on him as a driver, racer or person. He seemed like he didn't have the balls to get the job done (maybe he stole Hamilton's one drunken night?) but the last 6 races have been truly eye-opening. In Monaco he led all but 1 lap and was metronomic and ruthless in his pace all race.

No one should compare him to Shumacher or Alonso or anyone else - just let his results and his persona speak for themselves.

[Moanlower]

Amen to that Ciro. He haven't put a foot wrong yet this year, was fast, consistant and delivered when it mattered. If you can do that under pressure you deserve a slap on the back.

And I wouldn't compare him with this hero for other reasons than 7 WDC titels.

[donskar]

natef1 wrote:

Out of pure interest (and not knowing you), and given what you've just written, what would you make of Bernie's proposed medal system?

I think it stinks.

[natef1]

natef1 wrote:

Out of pure interest (and not knowing you), and given what you've just written, what would you make of Bernie's proposed medal system?

I think it stinks.

Got to agree with you there, was just wondering.

[tarzoon]

Button was never a bad driver. As tabloids would say, he was just too much into the playboy lifestyle. It's good to see him back on his feet and concentrating on his career. He's got the car, he's got the right driving style - the silky smooth - and he's got just the right amount of confidence. Unfortunately for him he kept competing in the "coolest sunglasses" thingy for too long.

We must give credit to Honda and Brawn. And even to Nick Fry, who was criticised by tabloids, but never by the people and Brackley. Brawn kept him after the thunderstorm, and that is saying a lot.

Luck? Not really! It's more a combined hard work that is paying off. He's fast, fit and has the best technical director out there.

P.S. - Alonso won the sunglasses competition last weekend!

[ESPImperium]

Button seems very sincere in his happiness at winning races. No corporate speel like Hamilton - he just shouts at the top of his voice like a true racer should.

I never really had an opinion of Button prior to this season. The quality of the machinery he's been in command of has varied from the Honda RA108 to the BAR 006 over the years and I could never get a true bearing on him as a driver, racer or person. He seemed like he didn't have the balls to get the job done (maybe he stole Hamilton's one drunken night?) but the last 6 races have been truly eye-opening. In Monaco he led all but 1 lap and was metronomic and ruthless in his pace all race.

No one should compare him to Shumacher or Alonso or anyone else - just let his results and his persona speak for themselves.

I think you have sumed up Button really nicely there, the machenery he has had has varied alot. Heres what he has had for his career:

2000 = BMW Williams FW22 (Quick consistant and good looking car)
2001 = Benneton B201 (Poor car, quickened mid season but still tail ender)
2002 = Renault R202 (Quick, consistant and well turned out car)
2003 = BAR 005 (Another capable, quick car)
2004 = BAR 006 (Sharp end car, lots of podiums, second best to F2004 that season)
2005 = BAR 007 (Poor ish car, evolution of 006, compeditors evolved past it, controvercial at San Marino due to Fuel For Balast debacle)
2006 = Honda RA106 (Evolution of BAR 007, but better presented, quick easy to drive, gave him first race win at Hungary in the wet)
2007 = Hondar RA107 (Poor car due to rushing of second wind tunnel and poor calibration of it, also too much relyance on CFD, Jenson scored all its 6 points that year, moving chicane)
2008 = Honda RA108 (Another poor car, also lacking from wind tunnel achilies heel, but didnt rely on CFD as much. Highlight was Silverstone at hands of Rubens and a third place. Capable, but still poor, Jensons car went up in flames in flames infront of new champoin Hamiltons car at last race in Brazil)

Jenson has had many diffrent types of car, from damned righ awsom, to equally poor as well. His experience on this makes him a more complete racer, also one who now enjoys the fruits of his labour.

I feel that he didnt have a good bite of the cherry in his early career, due to his age, and experienc coming stratight from Formula 3, but since then has proved to be a capable racer, and now given the machenery, a racer capable and worthy enough of winning GPs regularly and in the hunt for titles.

Personally, i feel that his current off track lifestyle and girlfriend, Jessica are a calming influence on him. Take Hamilton in comparison, chasing his Pussycat Doll arround the world and not on the phone to his race engineer each day, and also doing as much as he can in the simulator, or in a cart on a track some where to keep sharp with the testing ban.