Belgian GP 2010 - Spa Francorchamps

[Tomba]

I makes me sad really to come across these threads where the last x posts contain nothing more than "you need to", "there's no other way to handle him" or "mind your own business". As such, I have deleted all posts that were against the rules and their off-topic responses to them.

May I again ask to please use the "REPORT THIS POST" icon button on the top right of each post, rather than firing back on something you believe is against the rules?

[wrigs]

"I'm maybe the lowest driver in the car, I'm very low in the car and maybe if I was a bit higher, it would be easier to see," Massa explained.

"Definitely I couldn't see the lines very well, so I was a little bit outside, and that was it."

This is a stupid excuse, considering that the drivers go over the grid with their teams and have markings or other specific reference points on the track to aid the driver. No Felipe, it wouldn't matter if you were higher up. There are no drivers on the grid that are able to see lines right in front of their front wheels. Hell, the drivers can barely see the Bridgestone marking on the front tyres.

[Tim.Wright]

Considering its his job to place the car within millimeters at high speed I find it a pretty poor excuse to say he couldnt do the same at walking pace.

[ringo]

He's making excuses, something's wrong with him and he's hiding it.
I believe he has some long term complications from his accident, and him saying he's too low in the car just makes me suspect him even more of hiding some eye problems.

The fracture around his eye can be responsible for problems such as double vision or facial nerve damage. It's unlikely he would be 100% after such a big accident.



that left eye is sunken(Enophthalmos) probably has limited mobility from eye muscles:
more info on eye socket fractures.
http://www.mdguidelines.com/fracture-orbit
http://harvardatoz.demo.staywellsolutionsonline.com/71,AZ_d0174?PrinterFriendly=true
http://www.floridalionsfoundation.org/Eye%20Socket%20Repair.htm

Long story short, i think he missed the line because he could not see it or he was seeing doubles.
Someone needs to ask him about his vision, it could be a serious safety issue on the track.

[lotus7]

Long story short, i think he missed the line because he could not see it or he was seeing doubles.
Someone needs to ask him about his vision, it could be a serious safety issue on the track.

Surely Ferrari medics won't let him drive if he suffers from double vision .
Neither would the FIA medical staff - they check these things before issueing licenses.

[ringo]

You can't prove someone has double vission, let alone periodic double vission.
The double vission is only present when one eye moves to a point where it's muscles are interfered with. He can have no double vission looking in all directions but one, and have it in one eye position only, it can be complicated. Maybe the vision blurs at instances in time, under high G loadings, we don't know.
But it's hard to accept he missed the start line because he was too low in the car.
He should be able to notice that as the line disappeared under the wing, you should stop the car.
What may have happened is that he saw 2 lines. and aimed for the further one.

[andrew]

I thought he couldn't see becase he sat too low in the car.

[siskue2005]

You can't prove someone has double vission, let alone periodic double vission.
The double vission is only present when one eye moves to a point where it's muscles are interfered with. He can have no double vission looking in all directions but one, and have it in one eye position only, it can be complicated. Maybe the vision blurs at instances in time, under high G loadings, we don't know.
But it's hard to accept he missed the start line because he was too low in the car.
He should be able to notice that as the line disappeared under the wing, you should stop the car.
What may have happened is that he saw 2 lines. and aimed for the further one.

Actually i am a Doctor.
There are lots and lots of test to find out if one has double vision or not.
All the FIA medical staffs will do all these tests coz that is what they were looking, for as he was injured there
So i dont think he is having Diplopia

[siskue2005]

He's making excuses, something's wrong with him and he's hiding it.
I believe he has some long term complications from his accident, and him saying he's too low in the car just makes me suspect him even more of hiding some eye problems.

The fracture around his eye can be responsible for problems such as double vision or facial nerve damage. It's unlikely he would be 100% after such a big accident.

Facial nerve wont be damaged in such a high injury
and moreover facial nerve damage wont cause Diplopia at all.

that left eye is sunken(Enophthalmos) probably has limited mobility from eye muscles

that left eye is NOT sunken at all, well you have not seen what a Real sunken eye will look like.

[ecapox]

Here is a perfect example.

Massa in car


Liuzzi in car


Look at how low massa is in comparison to Liuzzi. Sure, they may be different heights, but surely not 5 inches or so.

[ringo]

Ok, i see, but wouldn't you need feed back from the patient to determine if they have this problem. A couple lies and he's 100%.
I wouldn't admit to a long term problem if i was an F1 driver. If i lost vision momentarily on the track, i'd rather struggle for a year with it, than lose my job because i admit to have momentary lapses in focus.

So Doc Siskue, is it possible that sunken eye could be affecting him?
Let's say ferrari turn a "blind eye" to signs he could be potential unfit to drive.

[ringo]

Here is a perfect example.

Massa in car


Liuzzi in car


Look at how low massa is in comparison to Liuzzi. Sure, they may be different heights, but surely not 5 inches or so.

Yes, however no matter how low he is. From that white line diappears under your car, you should stop soon enough. What he did in belgium was suspect.
He never did it before, and i don't think his seat position has changed drastically from the other races.

[andrew]

How about a comparision of the 2 Ferrari's? The Force India and Ferrari are different shapes.

[siskue2005]

Ok, i see, but wouldn't you need feed back from the patient to determine if they have this problem. A couple lies and he's 100%.
I wouldn't admit to a long term problem if i was an F1 driver. If i lost vision momentarily on the track, i'd rather struggle for a year with it, than lose my job because i admit to have momentary lapses in focus.

So Doc Siskue, is it possible that sunken eye could be affecting him?
Let's say ferrari turn a "blind eye" to signs he could be potential unfit to drive.

If u want to find out the field of vision of a patient you dont need 100% feedback from the patient
thats old days, now there are machines which will pick up all the eye muscle activities of the eye...and it can pick the field of visions etc.

you might have gone for eye checkup to the Doc, were they use your feedback to find you have to wear spectacles .....but now there are machines which will pick up if you have short sight and it will even give a print out telling how much power i should use for his glasses.

if u look properly he doesnt have sunken eyes
the Superior frontal ridge( the bone in the eye brow region)and below it is reconstructed surgically and it is bulging out.....which makes the eye look sunken
but infact it is not
and remember he had a big surgery there and which would lead to swelling of tissues in that area (yup even after 1 yr time)
and i dont think Ferrari would let him race with a problem in his eye....it could be really dangerous so.

[ringo]

From that picture and others, his left eye is visually out of line and it appears sunken in to so some degree. You've probably seen worse, but it is sunken compared to the right eye from my observation; that's what I'm seeing, so i can't say otherwise.
If we find a picture from 2008 and compare, he's different now.
I did some reading, and i know the eye can be repositioned, though some reduction in fatty tissue, and scarring can make the eyes and lids seem different, but Felipe's left eye is looking in a completely different direction to his right.

I think that Ferrari would let him race. I think they're crazy enough to do it.
If a team can hide illegal modifications on a car, they can hide a driver's health problem.
Let's say his vision blurs or doubles once every 10 laps, it's tempting to have him continue driving, after all his problem may only affect him momentarily, and no one can tell but him.

I have no evidence about his health, but his driving this year, and his mistakes indicate that something is wrong. Everyone of his slip ups is happening on his left side. Even today in practice at Monza felipe was veering off track to his left.
It would make an interesting story if a journalist asks him about his eye specifically.