Spanish GP 2011 - Barcelona

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.

Post Mon May 23, 2011 8:32 am

Then Vettel would have passed Hamilton... i dont see where Vettel immediately getting passed slower cars is lucky nor do I see Vettel being faster out of the last corner lucky that just shows that the RB7 is dominant... The fact that Vettel has won 4 of 5 races shows this
Look mama I'm going fast- Ricky Bobby
CyleB
 
Joined: 25 Feb 2011
Location: United States

Post Mon May 23, 2011 9:24 am

@CyleB

When I said lucky i meant he was lucky because McLaren obviously was faster if you consider the whole lap. Hamilton was closing on Vettel about 1sec/lap on same tyres. Vettel's luck was the high speed corner before the main straight. There he was able to pull quite a gap that makes Hamilton's overtake impossible. Vettel stated himself that Hamilton appeared quite behind at the beginning of the straight, while he was all over in his mirrors at the end of the straigth.
On the other hand, in reverse situation, RB7's poor top speed wouldn't allow an easy pass for Vettel even if he's very close in the last corner. So I think it's pretty much the same for both, but for completely different reasons.
"Nigel Mansell is the only one you could see in the two mirrors at the same time". Ayrton Senna.
kalinka
 
Joined: 18 Feb 2010
Location: Ada,Serbia

Post Mon May 23, 2011 9:29 am

Pitstops
Image

Classified drivers only.
Columns: Position, Name, Team, Lap, Time of day, Stop, Pitstop time, Pitlane Time, Total time in pits.




Stints
Image

Classified drivers only.
Legend: Yellow - soft tyre, silver - hard tyre, star - new tyre (unused on Saturday).



More on http://www.f1news.cz
Pedro
 
Joined: 2 Sep 2009

Post Mon May 23, 2011 9:45 am

djos wrote:The DRS Zone was badly botched by the FIA for the the Spanish GP, it didn't start anywhere near early enuf and as a result it cost Lewis the Win and Mark a Podium place - very disappointing imo!



well, I think it was just fine! Let them show some overtaking skill! not just press the accelerator, because that's what most of the overtakes this year were about. That is not racing skill or whatever. Besides, the DRS encourages the drivers not to try overtaking moves in parts of he track other that the DRS zone. I am still not convinces that the introduction of the DRS was good for the sport.
vall
 
Joined: 4 Nov 2008

Post Mon May 23, 2011 10:18 am

Well in terms of vettel and Hamilton debate; we all need to thank Mr. Alonso for setting it up so well for the top 2 drivers to fight

and +1 to valls' comment DRS is a bane to sport but tyre are the best think that happened to f1 recently
sriraj1031
 
Joined: 21 Feb 2008

Post Mon May 23, 2011 10:46 am

The strategic decisions dominate totally the outcome of the races and certainly the teams have no proper handle on this still...
Barrichello with only new unused tyres in the race still not making an impression on Maldonato is weird..he lost everything in the first stint and in the 3 on new hards compared to Maldonato..what went wrong there?
The pitstops were agonising as well...10 seconds lost to the best is lousy.bearing in mind that the car was not slow ...they seem to get not much right at this time.
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

Post Mon May 23, 2011 12:12 pm

CyleB wrote:Then Vettel would have passed Hamilton... i dont see where Vettel immediately getting passed slower cars is lucky nor do I see Vettel being faster out of the last corner lucky that just shows that the RB7 is dominant... The fact that Vettel has won 4 of 5 races shows this

Vettel would have passed a car that was 1 second a lap faster than him? o.O
beelsebob
 
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: Cupertino, California

Post Mon May 23, 2011 12:42 pm

marcush. wrote:Barrichello with only new unused tyres in the race still not making an impression on Maldonato is weird..he lost everything in the first stint and in the 3 on new hards compared to Maldonato..what went wrong there?
The pitstops were agonising as well...10 seconds lost to the best is lousy.bearing in mind that the car was not slow ...they seem to get not much right at this time.

Williams had horrible pitstops yesterday which eliminated the new tyre advantage. They had a problem with the rear jack on both cars so I hope they will fix that before Monaco.
However they are still lacking downforce and need to get the front & rear wings and the diffuser working.
Pedro
 
Joined: 2 Sep 2009

Post Mon May 23, 2011 1:34 pm

4 sets of brand new tyres are not just 10 seconds of advantage.
How on earth did Barrichello manage that time when the car has no downforce? he was just as quick as Heidfeld posting 3rd quickest time in lap 60/61..So where did it go all wrong and don´t tell me it was KERS.
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

Post Mon May 23, 2011 2:25 pm

wow! So much man love for Ham in this thread! I commend WB for his restraint. I know how much he loves Vettel and his red cow race car.

I don't watch a race with spreadsheet, charts, or graphs, but maybe someone a lot more obsessive than me can help:
1) Over the full length of the race, Ham had KERS; Vettel only intermittently. Anyone hazard a guess (or firm answer baased on facts) as to how much total difference that would have made? I have to believe it would be on the order of more than a second. More than enough for Vettel to be well clear of Ham. Glad to be corrected by someone with facts.
2) The DRS zone is what it is and is the same for all drivers. If placed differently it might have helped Ham. And if different, might have helped Vettel more.
3) When the trailing car (in any situation, not just Vettel-Ham) is able to use DRS, the trailing car is racing to a different set of aero rules than the car in front. Unprecedented.
4) What happened to the Renault engine's power deficit? Remember: with more HP (?), DRS, AND KERS, Ham could not pass Vettel.
5) The race is over. Vettel won. On to Monaco. Would LOVE to see the race won by a car that is neither chrome nor painted with a red cow on its side.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
donskar
 
Joined: 3 Feb 2007
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Post Mon May 23, 2011 2:33 pm

donskar wrote:I don't watch a race with spreadsheet, charts, or graphs


That's compulsory for all F1Technical members. If Tomba finds out you'll be banned!
richard_leeds
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Mon May 23, 2011 2:40 pm

donskar wrote:...
1) Over the full length of the race, Ham had KERS; Vettel only intermittently. Anyone hazard a guess (or firm answer baased on facts) as to how much total difference that would have made? I have to believe it would be on the order of more than a second. More than enough for Vettel to be well clear of Ham. Glad to be corrected by someone with facts.
...

The fact is it is impossible for a Red Bull to run a full race with operational KERS, unless they built a track on North Pole. That is their choice and it means they feel it gives them optimal performance. So it is completely fair to compare McLaren speed with fully operational KERS with Red Bull speed without one.
Paul
 
Joined: 25 Feb 2009

Post Mon May 23, 2011 2:53 pm

donskar wrote:1) Over the full length of the race, Ham had KERS; Vettel only intermittently. Anyone hazard a guess (or firm answer baased on facts) as to how much total difference that would have made? I have to believe it would be on the order of more than a second. More than enough for Vettel to be well clear of Ham. Glad to be corrected by someone with facts.

Doesn't work like that, Hamilton consistently pulled up to the back of Vettel till 0.7 behind and in the dirty air could go no further, so this fantasy KERS-less handicap you are trying to calculate is of no consequence, if Vettel was going faster, Hamilton would have been going faster too, and still 0.7 behind.

donskar wrote:2) The DRS zone is what it is and is the same for all drivers. If placed differently it might have helped Ham. And if different, might have helped Vettel more.
3) When the trailing car (in any situation, not just Vettel-Ham) is able to use DRS, the trailing car is racing to a different set of aero rules than the car in front. Unprecedented.

No one is concerned about precedent, and no-one is saying it wasn't the same for all, the point is that DRS is supposed to mitigate the unfair effects of travelling in another cars wake. That's the point. It probably failed to do that in Sunday's configuration, but not by very much. Previously cars required to be 2 seconds per lap faster to attempt an overtake, here a car on occasion half a second per lap faster could not get close to mounting an overtake, maybe a few extra yards would have helped, but if the differentials required have reduced from 2 to just a bit more than 0.5, then DRS is on the correct track..

donskar wrote:4) What happened to the Renault engine's power deficit? Remember: with more HP (?), DRS, AND KERS, Ham could not pass Vettel.

Nothing to do with power, and never has been. At the end of the straight Hamilton was 20k faster than Vettel, it is aero, traction and turbulent wake, that is all it has been about for decades.

donskar wrote:5) The race is over. Vettel won. On to Monaco. Would LOVE to see the race won by a car that is neither chrome nor painted with a red cow on its side.

Maybe those other cars want to concentrate on trying to stay on the lead lap before worrying about taking victories.
feynman
 
Joined: 2 Mar 2010

Post Mon May 23, 2011 4:28 pm

djos wrote:There would have been DRS overtaking had the zone started just after the exit of the corner instead of the start finish line!

I'm not sure what more you want though djos; there were some DRSovertakes. Heidfeld and Jenson showed that.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法
raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Mon May 23, 2011 4:33 pm

There were also non-DRS overtakes, such as Vettel carving through the mid field after his 2nd (?) stop
richard_leeds
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

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