Mclaren Mercedes 2014

[akshat21]

No I don't agree that Kmag had damage either.
My optimism is that the car is improving, there's confidence in boullier's voice and Kmag is looking stronger and stronger, he rinsed button on pace this weekend, he'll either keep it up or button will resurge.

He may have had the pace in Q but JB was miles faster in the race, check out the head to head posted above.

Button was faster. But Kmag was fighting through traffic to get back the where he was which would have cost him time. Jenson was faster in this race and Silverstone. He needs to keep being miles faster in almost every race to justify his race seat.

The car's pace looked good in Quali. Maybe, just maybe they are on the right track.

I think the real test of the updates will be Hungary as the track will require more downforce than Silverstone or Hockenheim. Also, we will get a clearer idea as to how much difference FRIC will make.

Fingers crossed..

[henra]

Copying other teams ideas means you will only be several weeks behind them by the time you have developed and tested the parts, meaning you would never actually close the gap.

That's a luxury problem from which McLaren is light years away at the moment.
Once they caught up to Merc to say 2/10s, they might start to pursue their own paths. Until then, copying seems like a sound (albeit a bit uninspiring) strategy.
Pursuing their own paths has led them into the weeds in the past two seasons. Maybe it's indeed time for a more conservative step by step approach. Championships have rarely been one by the single silver bullet solution but rather by meticulous refinement and attention to detail based on a sound basic design.

[F1 addicted]

No I don't agree that Kmag had damage either.
My optimism is that the car is improving, there's confidence in boullier's voice and Kmag is looking stronger and stronger, he rinsed button on pace this weekend, he'll either keep it up or button will resurge.

He may have had the pace in Q but JB was miles faster in the race, check out the head to head posted above.

Button was faster. But Kmag was fighting through traffic to get back the where he was which would have cost him time. Jenson was faster in this race and Silverstone. He needs to keep being miles faster in almost every race to justify his race seat.

The car's pace looked good in Quali. Maybe, just maybe they are on the right track.

I think the real test of the updates will be Hungary as the track will require more downforce than Silverstone or Hockenheim. Also, we will get a clearer idea as to how much difference FRIC will make.

Fingers crossed..

Why does he need to be miles faster? K Mag isn't Chilton or something.Button needs to beat K-Mag in most of the races. The line-up will be the same next season. K-Mag is the favourite of Dennis and Button has a lot marketing in Japan.

[JimClarkFan]

Right now copying imo is the best way to use the money Mclaren have available. Drop all the fancy stuff, normal rear suspension, no suspension blockers, low sleek profile for the exhaust vents. Once you have a good foundation, then start introducing your bespoke design concepts. Use all the depth and experience Mclaren has to better a proven concept, rather than swinging for the fences.

[CjC]

Didn't Kmag post a faster race lap than button? A significantly faster one. Both set their fastest laps at the end of the race on super softs if I'm not mistaken?

This could just be a blip from JB, he's allowed one dicky race, he has been generally faster than Kmag this season, all I'm saying is, is this the point where Kmag starts to show his true class and potential, hopes are high for him so we should see championship winning driving from him pretty soon, like we have with ricciardo and bottas this season.

[akshat21]

He may have had the pace in Q but JB was miles faster in the race, check out the head to head posted above.

Button was faster. But Kmag was fighting through traffic to get back the where he was which would have cost him time. Jenson was faster in this race and Silverstone. He needs to keep being miles faster in almost every race to justify his race seat.

The car's pace looked good in Quali. Maybe, just maybe they are on the right track.

I think the real test of the updates will be Hungary as the track will require more downforce than Silverstone or Hockenheim. Also, we will get a clearer idea as to how much difference FRIC will make.

Fingers crossed..

Why does he need to be miles faster? K Mag isn't Chilton or something.Button needs to beat K-Mag in most of the races. The line-up will be the same next season. K-Mag is the favourite of Dennis and Button has a lot marketing in Japan.

The same reason Alonso dominated Massa and is winning by miles from Kimi.

In order to show you are worth every penny you are being paid. You have to beat the pants off your team mate. And remember. Kimi is no slouch in the car. If he was at McLaren, we would be thinking of him as the lead driver (aside from the McL driver equality)

On another example, right now, Bottas is having a dream run. If he continues the same way for the rest of the season and into the next, do we really believe Massa would be able to justify his seat at Williams?? Or will Frank or Claire Williams look at someone else who would be cheaper to employ, younger, faster and maybe bring some more cash their way??

[CjC]

It's not related to this thread but yes, Williams need to shut of Massa, he's gone beyond a laughable joke he's shockingly bad.

[F1 addicted]

He may have had the pace in Q but JB was miles faster in the race, check out the head to head posted above.[/quote]

Button was faster. But Kmag was fighting through traffic to get back the where he was which would have cost him time. Jenson was faster in this race and Silverstone. He needs to keep being miles faster in almost every race to justify his race seat.

The car's pace looked good in Quali. Maybe, just maybe they are on the right track.

I think the real test of the updates will be Hungary as the track will require more downforce than Silverstone or Hockenheim. Also, we will get a clearer idea as to how much difference FRIC will make.

Fingers crossed..
The same reason Alonso dominated Massa and is winning by miles from Kimi.

In order to show you are worth every penny you are being paid. You have to beat the pants off your team mate. And remember. Kimi is no slouch in the car. If he was at McLaren, we would be thinking of him as the lead driver (aside from the McL driver equality)

On another example, right now, Bottas is having a dream run. If he continues the same way for the rest of the season and into the next, do we really believe Massa would be able to justify his seat at Williams?? Or will Frank or Claire Williams look at someone else who would be cheaper to employ, younger, faster and maybe bring some more cash their way??[/quote]
So Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, Force India, Lotus and Marussuia should look for new drivers if i believed you...

[akshat21]

So Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, Force India, Lotus and Marussuia should look for new drivers if i believed you...

Chilton is a pay driver. At Red Bull Vettel has had a bad season (IIRC, Vettel beat Weber pretty comprehensively in the past two seasons atleast), Merc drivers as of now are evenly matched (they very discreetly showed the door to Schumi when they knew he couldn't perform).. Ferrari got rid of Massa because he was not up to the mark, Lotus renewed Maldonado because they need the money, FI got Perez and Carlos Slim's money....

My point is, when you are not a pay driver, you need to keep justifying your worth to the team day in and day out. When you are in a top team, be it Merc, Ferrari or Red Bull, you need to keep showing just how good you are. That means wringing the a podium out of the car which is only good for 5th or 6th. Alonso does this on a regular basis. So did Hamilton. It also means, being Miles ahead of your team mate.

I am not trying to take anything away from Kevin's talent, but the fact of the matter is, you have to ahead a good margin in every race from your rookie team mate if you want to keep your race seat and be paid what you are getting paid right now.

[F1 addicted]

So Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, Force India, Lotus and Marussuia should look for new drivers if i believed you...

Chilton is a pay driver. At Red Bull Vettel has had a bad season (IIRC, Vettel beat Weber pretty comprehensively in the past two seasons atleast), Merc drivers as of now are evenly matched (they very discreetly showed the door to Schumi when they knew he couldn't perform).. Ferrari got rid of Massa because he was not up to the mark, Lotus renewed Maldonado because they need the money, FI got Perez and Carlos Slim's money....

My point is, when you are not a pay driver, you need to keep justifying your worth to the team day in and day out. When you are in a top team, be it Merc, Ferrari or Red Bull, you need to keep showing just how good you are. That means wringing the a podium out of the car which is only good for 5th or 6th. Alonso does this on a regular basis. So did Hamilton. It also means, being Miles ahead of your team mate.

I am not trying to take anything away from Kevin's talent, but the fact of the matter is, you have to ahead a good margin in every race from your rookie team mate if you want to keep your race seat and be paid what you are getting paid right now.

Button beated Perez, Barrichello and had more points then Hamilton. Hamilton and Alonso are the best drivers in F1. You can espect that drivers like Button and Vettel can be as good as them.

[akshat21]

With the budget that McLaren have and are gonna have next season and beyond, I do expect a top driver in McLaren (if not next season then probably the one after that). Button beat Hamilton in one season. Except for that I believe Hamilton was always on top. For me, personally, I don't consider Jenson to be at the same level as Alonso or Hamilton.. And I trully believe that McL need a driver of that calibre, along with a great engineering dept, for turn its fortunes around.

[F1 addicted]

With the budget that McLaren have and are gonna have next season and beyond, I do expect a top driver in McLaren (if not next season then probably the one after that). Button beat Hamilton in one season. Except for that I believe Hamilton was always on top. For me, personally, I don't consider Jenson to be at the same level as Alonso or Hamilton.. And I trully believe that McL need a driver of that calibre, along with a great engineering dept, for turn its fortunes around.

Why would Alonso and Hamilton want to go to a worse team. If Alonso leaves Ferrari. He will leave it for Red Bull or Mercedes. There isn't and there won't be a better driver avalaible than Button.

[akshat21]

With the budget that McLaren have and are gonna have next season and beyond, I do expect a top driver in McLaren (if not next season then probably the one after that). Button beat Hamilton in one season. Except for that I believe Hamilton was always on top. For me, personally, I don't consider Jenson to be at the same level as Alonso or Hamilton.. And I trully believe that McL need a driver of that calibre, along with a great engineering dept, for turn its fortunes around.

Why would Alonso and Hamilton want to go to a worse team. If Alonso leaves Ferrari. He will leave it for Red Bull or Mercedes. There isn't and there won't be a better driver avalaible than Button.

Bottas looks better.. and for him its a step up. I am not saying Hamilton and Alonso will come next year. A lot depends on what McL/Honda does next year.. If the car is good and the engine is good, things might change.

There are precedences of Drivers moving to less competitive teams when they think it is best for their future or if they think the team will turn around quickly enough for them. Hamilton did it recently. At that time, McLaren had the best car after RB (Their race ops and reliability sucked, but thats a different point). Michael Schumacher did it when he moved from Benetton (where he had won 2 Championships) to Ferrari. Fernando did it when he moved to McLaren from Renault (remember, at that time Ferrari and Renaults were the teams to beat). McLaren lost the WDC WCC due to spy gate and inter team rivalries that year. But the car was great the year after as well when Hamilton won the Championship.

A lot depends on what the team has to offer and the convincing power of who is offering it (i.e. Ron Dennis and Eric Boullier).. As per the rumors swirling around, Honda has given McLaren all it needs to hire top talent in all departments. You have RB No. 2 in Peter Prodromou joining the team in September. which has to be good news. There are other changes afoot as well. If the drivers see the ingredients for success, they will follow. Its a task to get top drivers, but its not insurmountable task.

[F1 addicted]

With the budget that McLaren have and are gonna have next season and beyond, I do expect a top driver in McLaren (if not next season then probably the one after that). Button beat Hamilton in one season. Except for that I believe Hamilton was always on top. For me, personally, I don't consider Jenson to be at the same level as Alonso or Hamilton.. And I trully believe that McL need a driver of that calibre, along with a great engineering dept, for turn its fortunes around.

Why would Alonso and Hamilton want to go to a worse team. If Alonso leaves Ferrari. He will leave it for Red Bull or Mercedes. There isn't and there won't be a better driver avalaible than Button.

Bottas looks better.. and for him its a step up. I am not saying Hamilton and Alonso will come next year. A lot depends on what McL/Honda does next year.. If the car is good and the engine is good, things might change.

There are precedences of Drivers moving to less competitive teams when they think it is best for their future or if they think the team will turn around quickly enough for them. Hamilton did it recently. At that time, McLaren had the best car after RB (Their race ops and reliability sucked, but thats a different point). Michael Schumacher did it when he moved from Benetton (where he had won 2 Championships) to Ferrari. Fernando did it when he moved to McLaren from Renault (remember, at that time Ferrari and Renaults were the teams to beat). McLaren lost the WDC WCC due to spy gate and inter team rivalries that year. But the car was great the year after as well when Hamilton won the Championship.

A lot depends on what the team has to offer and the convincing power of who is offering it (i.e. Ron Dennis and Eric Boullier).. As per the rumors swirling around, Honda has given McLaren all it needs to hire top talent in all departments. You have RB No. 2 in Peter Prodromou joining the team in September. which has to be good news. There are other changes afoot as well. If the drivers see the ingredients for success, they will follow. Its a task to get top drivers, but its not insurmountable task.

Hamilton wasn't happy at McLaren. Alonso too. He moved to the team he got his succes. Bottas isn't better than Button. Dennis only wants a WDC.

[KingHamilton01]

With the budget that McLaren have and are gonna have next season and beyond, I do expect a top driver in McLaren (if not next season then probably the one after that). Button beat Hamilton in one season. Except for that I believe Hamilton was always on top. For me, personally, I don't consider Jenson to be at the same level as Alonso or Hamilton.. And I trully believe that McL need a driver of that calibre, along with a great engineering dept, for turn its fortunes around.

Why would Alonso and Hamilton want to go to a worse team. If Alonso leaves Ferrari. He will leave it for Red Bull or Mercedes. There isn't and there won't be a better driver avalaible than Button.

Alonso hasn't Been world champion at Ferrari, do you expect Red Bull to be as competitive in coming season's especially since newey is going to be working on new project's. Mercedes are a good prospect but do they need him, imo leaves the door wide open to Alonso at McLaren, he can make this team his own now hamilton is not there. Plus no one should underestimate the impact Honda will have at McLaren.