Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

[astracrazy]

I would love to know where that figure came from. Did Merc offer that or did Lewis negotiate them up to it. Because it must be somewhat awkward sitting there pushing to have so much money

[PlatinumZealot]

I reckon Mercedes could've done a deal at 10 million a year. But it's totally irrelevant as Hamiltons marketing value exceeds what Mercedes pay him, and they get probably the best driver on the grid alongside Alonso.

Mercedes wins, Hamilton wins.

My personal view is that no one on gods green earth is worth 100 million over 3 years. But the numbers make sense when you look at the what both bring to the table.

The 100 million figure is just speculation, but if it is true I think Hamilton deserves it. Vettel and Alonso get close to that amount or more and come to think of it, I don't think they are nearly as good a package from a performance plus marketing point of view.

[PlatinumZealot]

I would love to know where that figure came from. Did Merc offer that or did Lewis negotiate them up to it. Because it must be somewhat awkward sitting there pushing to have so much money

Based on Lauda's expression I don't think it is that much more... Maybe 3 million per year more than before.. Lauda was comparing the millions to the tenths

[ringo]

Yes where have the figures come from, and how do they compare to Rosberg's deal?

Secondly, i feel Alonso cannot be see as joint best driver anymore. After Button beats him this year things will be put into perspective on how good Alonso is now compared to what he was before, and also to other drivers.
We are seeing things unfold with Kimi now with vettel as teammate.

[SiLo]

Yes where have the figures come from, and how do they compare to Rosberg's deal?

Secondly, i feel Alonso cannot be see as joint best driver anymore. After Button beats him this year things will be put into perspective on how good Alonso is now compared to what he was before, and also to other drivers.
We are seeing things unfold with Kimi now with vettel as teammate.

And Button's stock should finally be valued for what it is.

[Manoah2u]

Yes where have the figures come from, and how do they compare to Rosberg's deal?

Secondly, i feel Alonso cannot be see as joint best driver anymore. After Button beats him this year things will be put into perspective on how good Alonso is now compared to what he was before, and also to other drivers.
We are seeing things unfold with Kimi now with vettel as teammate.

And Button's stock should finally be valued for what it is.

at the same rate it doesn't mean Alonso isn't as good as people think he is, but it could rather be Button is much better then people credit him for.

In all reality though, it's rubbish comparison because Alonso is in his frist 're-entry' year with Mclaren, with just a couple of races under his belt, he has a total different car that was not tailored to him while he had a car completely tailored to him @ Ferrari, shouldn't forget his pre-season incident either, we have no clue what that really was all about but he did seem to suffer a concussion so obviously his physique was not as 100% as it was with Ferrari a year before, and last but not least, don't forget the sever amount of bad luck and problems Mclaren has had untill now.

So there really is no comparison imho.

But, my question is this; why is there a Alonso-Button comparison discussed regarding Mclaren in a Mercedes AMG thread?

[ringo]

There isn't one, unless you started it with your post.
There is simply some perspective on why Hamilton's contract may be bigger money than Rosbergs, seeing as though now with Alonso not looking too unbeatable, Hamilton may just be considered best driver on the grid.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

There is simply some perspective on why Hamilton's contract may be bigger money than Rosbergs, seeing as though now with Alonso not looking too unbeatable, Hamilton may just be considered best driver on the grid.

You are right, if the rating system of yours works like, "Best Driver of a Race", "Best driver of the Season". But, if the rating is for a career, up till this point, it's an altogether different proposition and you might simply find yourself alone in your argument. Most drivers go through a dip at some point due to a variety of circumstances, like Hamilton went through in 2011. Different reason for dip for each driver and currently Alonso is in that situation. Even if it is for this season, let's wait until the season is over before passing the judgement.

[dans79]

What do people think the options are to fix the "strategist" issue?

As far as I'm concerned, this is a must fix. History has shown this one strategist set-up, has failed very publicly on several occasions. I think the team should have 3 strategists, in a tiered system. Each driver should have his own strategist, and they should be under a senior strategist. The senior strategist's primary job is to look after the teams interests maximizing constructor points. The driver strategists, should be focused on getting the best finish for their driver only, within the constraints laid down by the senior.

Another way of thinking of this, is in military terms. The senior strategist, is the multi star General who outlines the strategic goals, and the driver strategist is the Major/Colonel who makes the tactical decisions.

I think if such a system had been in-place at Monaco, the team would not have had the debacle it did.

[Jordan44]

What do people think the options are to fix the "strategist" issue?

As far as I'm concerned, this is a must fix. History has shown this one strategist set-up, has failed very publicly on several occasions. I think the team should have 3 strategists, in a tiered system. Each driver should have his own strategist, and they should be under a senior strategist. The senior strategist's primary job is to look after the teams interests maximizing constructor points. The driver strategists, should be focused on getting the best finish for their driver only, within the constraints laid down by the senior.

Another way of thinking of this, is in military terms. The senior strategist, is the multi star General who outlines the strategic goals, and the driver strategist is the Major/Colonel who makes the tactical decisions.

I think if such a system had been in-place at Monaco, the team would not have had the debacle it did.

I can't see Merc ever agreeing to that, they are far too team centralised. They want one guy who does the job to get both cars as high as possible without them tripping over each other. But history does dictate it is not the best system.

Edit: Seems I was right! https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/statu ... 5062088705

[dans79]

I can't see Merc ever agreeing to that, they are far too team centralised. They want one guy who does the job to get both cars as high as possible without them tripping over each other.

I think in today's day and age, there is too much data flowing in for that. I'm willing to bet the reason why they didn't tell Lewis to stay Out in Monaco, is because the strategist wasn't aware he caught the safety car, because he was focused/working on something else.

The "there can be only one" mentality doesn't jive with there current team structure either. They have multiple team principles, and multiple technical directors.

Edit: Seems I was right! https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/statu ... 5062088705

That's the team responding to someone suggesting separate strategists for each driver. I'm suggesting they keep their centralized control, but allow for more flexibility at a lower level.

[Jordan44]

I can't see Merc ever agreeing to that, they are far too team centralised. They want one guy who does the job to get both cars as high as possible without them tripping over each other.

I think in today's day and age, there is too much data flowing in for that. I'm willing to bet the reason why they didn't tell Lewis to stay Out in Monaco, is because the strategist wasn't aware he caught the safety car, because he was focused/working on something else.

The "there can be only one" mentality doesn't jive with there current team structure either. They have multiple team principles, and multiple technical directors.

Edit: Seems I was right! https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/statu ... 5062088705

That's the team responding to someone suggesting separate strategists for each driver. I'm suggesting they keep their centralized control, but allow for more flexibility at a lower level.

Each driver should have his own strategist

[dans79]

I can't see Merc ever agreeing to that, they are far too team centralised. They want one guy who does the job to get both cars as high as possible without them tripping over each other.

I think in today's day and age, there is too much data flowing in for that. I'm willing to bet the reason why they didn't tell Lewis to stay Out in Monaco, is because the strategist wasn't aware he caught the safety car, because he was focused/working on something else.

The "there can be only one" mentality doesn't jive with there current team structure either. They have multiple team principles, and multiple technical directors.

Edit: Seems I was right! https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/statu ... 5062088705

That's the team responding to someone suggesting separate strategists for each driver. I'm suggesting they keep their centralized control, but allow for more flexibility at a lower level.

Each driver should have his own strategist

Two people working independently of each other, is drastically different too two employees working under a supervisor/manager.

[atanatizante]

I don't have all the pieces in order to make a proper judgment and neither you guys have, therefore all our comments are at least subjective ...
Nonetheless if there is someone how could be objective and also has the ability to see the "big picture" he/she should bring on some questions regarding this matter :

1. Is Lewis an experienced driver, even if he has +150 races under his belt with 8 of them being here?
We all knew his driver skills and most of all that he is in the rare bread of true racers but we must admit that, bedside the fact that we and he all do mistakes, he also has some weak points and one of them is the lack of judgment (or maybe someone harsher than me could say he has the muscle not the brain ) and these desperate times are the only real factor when you show your real face coz this is one of the few situation when subconscious rise above the conscious state ...
So being in his shoes at that time, bearing in mind we have his race experience and knowing there are some 10 laps to go and most of all being in Monte Carlo, 9 of 10 from us wouldn't come in ... and more of that 999 of 1000 race drivers wouldn't do that ...
Just one simple argument would have been enough for him : had Rosberg or Vettel had pitted they would have had to pass on track each at least 2 drivers behind them that didn't need to stop coz there were remaining 10 f..... laps to go.
Hence my above conclusion ...

2. A second question : is there anybody in the team who supervises strategic calls, bearing in mind there were a couple of that in the last couple of years.
Judging the facts the answer is obvious, but what's wondering me is they are failing again and again and they didn't do any actions in order to never occur.
I don't think we should fire unless there are multiple fails on a short space of time or had he did something that is unbearable, but what I don't understand why they don't strengthen the group with an additional dude (his race engineer) or two and the final decision must be 2 out of 3 combine with drivers input.
Here they have had plenty of time even for one guy to take the right call and if I recall at some point they told him to stay out but in the end their addition fail was that they didn't manage to explain him why it's useless to do so with 10 laps to go and more of that they were easily convinced by their driver without taken into account that they have all the data, there were almost 10 laps to go and finally we are in Monte Carlo ...
But maybe in the dyeing moments they were out of time and need to do a quick decision forcing them to respond at Lewis fears.
So maybe in the end we could see as someone said it was a 50-50 fault between Lewis and the team, hence his reactions and words after the race ... anyway some wisdom he has afterwards ...

3. But maybe the real question above all these is the following : is there any head member staff with race experience in this team?
Someone who can see the big picture?
Someone who can make the final call in the but most of all when there is no time to spare?
Paddy is CTO but was acting like team leader in Bahrain last year when were fighting but nowadays is not.
One person was Ross and now is Niky but I fear he has just an advisory role before and after the race and maybe it's time to have a word even in the race now.
And maybe it's Toto finally call after he was informed both by Nick and strategy guy ...

[PlatinumZealot]

I don't have all the pieces in order to make a proper judgment and neither you guys have, therefore all our comments are at least subjective ...
Nonetheless if there is someone how could be objective and also has the ability to see the "big picture" he/she should bring on some questions regarding this matter :

1. Is Lewis an experienced driver, even if he has +150 races under his belt with 8 of them being here?
We all knew his driver skills and most of all that he is in the rare bread of true racers but we must admit that, bedside the fact that we and he all do mistakes, he also has some weak points and one of them is the lack of judgment (or maybe someone harsher than me could say he has the muscle not the brain ) and these desperate times are the only real factor when you show your real face coz this is one of the few situation when subconscious rise above the conscious state ...
So being in his shoes at that time, bearing in mind we have his race experience and knowing there are some 10 laps to go and most of all being in Monte Carlo, 9 of 10 from us wouldn't come in ... and more of that 999 of 1000 race drivers wouldn't do that ...
Just one simple argument would have been enough for him : had Rosberg or Vettel had pitted they would have had to pass on track each at least 2 drivers behind them that didn't need to stop coz there were remaining 10 f..... laps to go.
Hence my above conclusion ...
.

The driver has already absolved himself. He said he saw the Pit crew out in the pit-lane. This alone is what triggered the driver to question the security of his track position. Is my teammate going to jump me? Is there a rush to the pits? Can my tyres last to defend against these guys on the supersofts? Hey were are the other guys (20 seconds aback no where to be seen). All these things are going through the drivers head PLUS "Racing your bicycle in the living room" there is absolutely no way the driver has the head space to make those sorts of STRATEGY calls in the heat of a Monaco safety car period. No way. He must be God if he can make that judgement AND go against his team. Driver's all suffer to strategy calls sometimes.