Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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mcdenife
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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atanatizante wrote:So being in his shoes at that time, bearing in mind we have his race experience and knowing there are some 10 laps to go and most of all being in Monte Carlo, 9 of 10 from us wouldn't come in ... and more of that 999 of 1000 race drivers wouldn't do that ...
Thats why those 9 of 10 of us are not racing in F1, thats why those 999 of 1000 of race drivers are not world champion. Because that 1 out the 1000 who would do 'that', know that F1 is a team sport and he/she has to trust the team, even if they dont always get it right. Essentially you are saying that not only should he know better than the team where everyone else is on track (despite not being able to see them) but also how far they are from each other, how fast they are relative to each other, track, car, tyre, driver situation/conditions for each car and/or weather conditions on other parts of the track (the team may well have seen something he is unaware of). Personally I would question his judgement if he had ignored the team but ended up wining the race this time.
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..

The noblest of dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

JRalph
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Not to bring up the Monaco fiasco, but I wanted to touch on something else with this radio exchange. It's fascinating how often Hamilton's race engineer tells him to stay positive after the virtual safety car is deployed but before they even have the pit strategy conversation, almost like begging him not to react negatively. It's as if the race engineer is expecting Hamilton to overreact to a relatively straight forward safety car and thus preemtively trying to calm him down. I could be reading that wrong, but if that's the case it's interesting how the team needs to help Lewis stay calm.

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SilverArrow10
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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JRalph wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQd6zlfobXs

Not to bring up the Monaco fiasco, but I wanted to touch on something else with this radio exchange. It's fascinating how often Hamilton's race engineer tells him to stay positive after the virtual safety car is deployed but before they even have the pit strategy conversation, almost like begging him not to react negatively. It's as if the race engineer is expecting Hamilton to overreact to a relatively straight forward safety car and thus preemtively trying to calm him down. I could be reading that wrong, but if that's the case it's interesting how the team needs to help Lewis stay calm.
Its to stay positive on his delta time on his dash due to the safety car. Its nothing to do with Hamilton's mentality :roll:
"Leave it to Lewis Hamilton to ruin Redbull's day" - Martin Brundle

"Ok Lewis, Its Hammertime!!" - Peter Bonnington

"Fresh tires, 15 laps. What do you think Lewis Hamilton is going to do?" - Martin Brundle

JRalph
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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SilverArrow10 wrote:
JRalph wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQd6zlfobXs

Not to bring up the Monaco fiasco, but I wanted to touch on something else with this radio exchange. It's fascinating how often Hamilton's race engineer tells him to stay positive after the virtual safety car is deployed but before they even have the pit strategy conversation, almost like begging him not to react negatively. It's as if the race engineer is expecting Hamilton to overreact to a relatively straight forward safety car and thus preemtively trying to calm him down. I could be reading that wrong, but if that's the case it's interesting how the team needs to help Lewis stay calm.
Its to stay positive on his delta time on his dash due to the safety car. Its nothing to do with Hamilton's mentality :roll:

Guess I read that wrong, whoops!

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Well, well well. What kind of a show that Merc were putting on yesterday? Asking Lewis to lift and cruise because there was a danger of fuel flow limit, despite his car's consumption was relatively lower than Nico's. Nico being asked to take care of breaks without any noticeable abuse of breaks on his part and running slightly higher on the fuel side relative to Lewis. Is this a way of asking both to hold station to ensure life of PU? In any case, Nico couldn't have overtaken Lewis and no threat from anyone else in the competition, so ensure life of the car. You can't blame them for the underlying concern, but it was very clumsy way of execution, to say the least. Another example of prudent minds on Strategy/Pit Wall.

Oh, has the world settled into precise agreement that Lewis is in fact the faster driver of the two, quali or race and so no more discussion on Lewis Vs Nico? It was fun last year though. 6-1 so far in qualifying and 5-2 in races.

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Phil
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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The fuel requests were a bit odd, but in the end, it did level out massively to the point I was wondering if they would actually finish under the 100kg point (with the extra lap after the chequered flag and all), but the team probably fuel the cars accoardingly. The race not having a safety car probably didn't help either. The only explanaition I have for the above, is that the team and drivers were managing the entire race; driving to deltas, managing brake and fuel wear. Even in the periods where we didn't have any (broadcasted) radio calls, I expect the drivers to have been given clear instructions what engine modes need to be used and what time delta should be targeted to get through the race. Many of the above calls also weren't because he *needed to* save fuel, but from what I understand to have a margin at the end in case the other driver mounted an attack. It was all about management and having enough in hand to react. Since the fuel was the big limiting factor, the majority of radio calls were thus directed at fuel consumption and saving.

Niki also confirmed on RTL that both drivers were in fact "racing". I tend to believe him. Mercedes can't afford to be caught of foul play (even if it technically would be legal, but to them it's more about image than anything) and I think Rosberg would have shown quite a different demeanor if team orders were issued.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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drunkf1fan
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Holding station, maybe, perfectly possible but ultimately one of the reasons cars had failures last year is because even with a 20-40 second gap to 3rd place those two were fighting each other and causing higher ers/brake temps and higher fuel usage. If either driver had been flat out then they would have had trouble finishing the race. I don't think the messages were so much about holding station but getting them to fight while both at 90% rather than at 100% as they did last year too many times.

The problem really is that even if the team say on the radio this race needs some lower engine mode to finish safely for fuel and brake/ers temp drivers, usually the one behind, will always think "hey, if I just turn up the engine then I can win this damn race". I think the messages were more about keeping both drivers within the safe to finish modes on the engine than preventing them racing each other. Tell a driver to conserve energy but everything is fine then he'll think he has some room to just use that higher mode for a couple laps and see what he can do. tell a driver his brakes/ers temps/fuel is over the limit then they are going to keep fighting but more safely.

Canada is a problem for brake/mgu-k/battery temps due to the amount it charges and discharges in quick successful and simply how much of the race is full throttle. If Merc allowed them to just turn up the engines and fight flat out they'd probably both break the cars in doing so.

R_Redding
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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drunkf1fan wrote:usually the one behind, will always think "hey, if I just turn up the engine then I can win this damn race".
Rosberg said post race to the beeb , that he has a button on his steering wheel that gives him full power for 2 laps , but if he presses it LHs engineer tells LH that Rosberg has pressed the button , so LH presses his.
Rosberg suggested the team keep this secret... from either side . In later forum interview LH said it would not matter ,as he'd be able to spot it instantly, as a driver,anyway.

drunkf1fan
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Yeah, it's always the same with Rosberg, "if I'd qualified ahead I'd have won." He said it constantly last year and multiple times this year. Where was it he was 0.007 or something behind pole, he was saying he lost the win by that much completely ignoring the race. Since Hamilton has been there Hamilton has come from behind Rosberg over and over again, Rosberg has rarely if ever done so and not since start of 2014.

AS you say and I didn't know Hamilton had also said, if someone suddenly goes from 1.5 to 0.5 seconds behind you these things called wing mirrors, as well as the delta shown to guy behind would let him know to turn the engine up. His team telling him isn't required. Hamilton was fairly comfortable and pulled out a comfortable gap before the pitstops and a gap at the end.

Since the start of 2014 it's painfully obvious. If Hamilton has a gap Rosberg occasionally closes it but magically ends up 1-2 seconds behind Hamilton, with Hamilton pulling out a gap when he needs one, before pitstops basically. Hamilton is managing the race and after slowing down he sits Rosberg in his dirty hotter and just manages Rosberg entirely. In the other position with Rosberg ahead Hamilton closes easily, gets within a second, usually passes Rosberg then either pulls out a gap or manages Rosberg. Rosberg has only managed to maintain a lead when starting ahead if Hamilton has a problem or it's a specific and hard to pass at track. Monaco, Barca, Brazil, couple of others.

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De Jokke
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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GPR-A wrote:Well, well well. What kind of a show that Merc were putting on yesterday? Asking Lewis to lift and cruise because there was a danger of fuel flow limit, despite his car's consumption was relatively lower than Nico's. Nico being asked to take care of breaks without any noticeable abuse of breaks on his part and running slightly higher on the fuel side relative to Lewis. Is this a way of asking both to hold station to ensure life of PU? In any case, Nico couldn't have overtaken Lewis and no threat from anyone else in the competition, so ensure life of the car. You can't blame them for the underlying concern, but it was very clumsy way of execution, to say the least. Another example of prudent minds on Strategy/Pit Wall.

Oh, has the world settled into precise agreement that Lewis is in fact the faster driver of the two, quali or race and so no more discussion on Lewis Vs Nico? It was fun last year though. 6-1 so far in qualifying and 5-2 in races.
6-1 in races you mean :)
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!
If you can't beat'em, call Masi!

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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De Jokke wrote:
GPR-A wrote:Well, well well. What kind of a show that Merc were putting on yesterday? Asking Lewis to lift and cruise because there was a danger of fuel flow limit, despite his car's consumption was relatively lower than Nico's. Nico being asked to take care of breaks without any noticeable abuse of breaks on his part and running slightly higher on the fuel side relative to Lewis. Is this a way of asking both to hold station to ensure life of PU? In any case, Nico couldn't have overtaken Lewis and no threat from anyone else in the competition, so ensure life of the car. You can't blame them for the underlying concern, but it was very clumsy way of execution, to say the least. Another example of prudent minds on Strategy/Pit Wall.

Oh, has the world settled into precise agreement that Lewis is in fact the faster driver of the two, quali or race and so no more discussion on Lewis Vs Nico? It was fun last year though. 6-1 so far in qualifying and 5-2 in races.
6-1 in races you mean :)
Ha, yeah I guess it should be that. I know the stats won't say it, but we all know Rosberg was well and truly beaten that weekend.
Felipe Baby!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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drunkf1fan wrote:Yeah, it's always the same with Rosberg, "if I'd qualified ahead I'd have won." He said it constantly last year and multiple times this year. Where was it he was 0.007 or something behind pole, he was saying he lost the win by that much completely ignoring the race. Since Hamilton has been there Hamilton has come from behind Rosberg over and over again, Rosberg has rarely if ever done so and not since start of 2014.

AS you say and I didn't know Hamilton had also said, if someone suddenly goes from 1.5 to 0.5 seconds behind you these things called wing mirrors, as well as the delta shown to guy behind would let him know to turn the engine up. His team telling him isn't required. Hamilton was fairly comfortable and pulled out a comfortable gap before the pitstops and a gap at the end.

Since the start of 2014 it's painfully obvious. If Hamilton has a gap Rosberg occasionally closes it but magically ends up 1-2 seconds behind Hamilton, with Hamilton pulling out a gap when he needs one, before pitstops basically. Hamilton is managing the race and after slowing down he sits Rosberg in his dirty hotter and just manages Rosberg entirely. In the other position with Rosberg ahead Hamilton closes easily, gets within a second, usually passes Rosberg then either pulls out a gap or manages Rosberg. Rosberg has only managed to maintain a lead when starting ahead if Hamilton has a problem or it's a specific and hard to pass at track. Monaco, Barca, Brazil, couple of others.
Very good point!
This must be very annoying for Rosberg and Toto. Rosbeg because he has the same car and can react by copying him. For Toto Hamilton is "damaging" Rosberg's car by doing this.

Hamilton has weighed the pros and cons of leading by a small margin Versus pulling off into the distance and it seems in his mind he has worked it out like this:

Scenario #1: Team mate is close on pace OR cars pace is limited by fuel/tyres/brakes
Tactic A: Maintain a 2 second gap during non-critical laps if possible. Safe distance. Dirty air will harm teammate's car.
Tactic B: Pull out a 4 second gap during pit-stop window if possible. Safety cushion for bad pit stop.
Tactic C: Lower gap down to 1.5 to 2 seconds to create REALLY dirty air for teammate but keeping him out of DRS.

Scario #2: Team mate is on pace No car limits
Tactic A: If trailing, conserve tyres stay out of dirty air, try to close gap and apply pressure at weak points of teammate
Tactic B: Conseve tyres for "Hammer time" at pit window
Tactic C: If leading, conserve tyres in 1st stint keeping gap at 2 seconds, play to strong points. Save fuel for a final stint blitz.

Scenario #3: Team mate is down on pace
Tactic A: Blitz him! 20 second gap (example Monaco)
Tactic B: Pull out a 6 second gap and manage fuel and tyres just in case.

Scenario #4: Team mate is faster no limitations
Tactic A: Push hard and apply pressure at Teammate weak points if possible - try alternative strategy
Tactic B: Push hard and pray to the Gods (damage limitation).
Tactic C: If team mate is behind ... prepare for battle..

Scenario #5: Team mate is faster with fuel and tyre limits.
Tactic A: Play to strengths.. Conserve fuel by lifting and coasting.. nurse tyres and hope to catch Team mate in the last stint
Tactic B: If set up is really bad... just call it a day and limit damage.
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tuj
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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“The secret”, said Niki Lauda, “is to win going as slowly as possible."

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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I was always of the opinion (argued so hard) that, Lewis' struggles last year were more to do with his discomfort on braking and it is evident this year with his superior performances, now that he doesn't have those break problems.
"It has taken some time to work with this new team and really mould this car, in terms of braking and everything, into what I need and it's working well now," said Hamilton.
Lewis Hamilton more comfortable with 2015 Mercedes Formula 1 car