2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

[aral]

I have just had to remove a lot of posts as it was becoming off topic and was setting off World War 3. The topic is the mercedes team and Ferrari talk has no part of this thread. Please try and stay on topic

[dans79]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34190.html

But a Mercedes source told Auto Motor und Sport on Monday: "It was our fault. We had incorrectly calibrated the maps."

Senior engineer Andy Shovlin confirmed: "Even we needed a couple of laps to understand what was going on and how to resolve it."

Anyone know what they mean by "calibrated the maps"?

[basti313]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34190.html

But a Mercedes source told Auto Motor und Sport on Monday: "It was our fault. We had incorrectly calibrated the maps."

Senior engineer Andy Shovlin confirmed: "Even we needed a couple of laps to understand what was going on and how to resolve it."

Anyone know what they mean by "calibrated the maps"?

They had a wrong deployment strategy when the car was lighter on fuel. They did not calibrate the speed gain due to less weight correctly, thus, the MGU-K deployed too long on the straight and the charging went down. As a result the power unit charged on the straight between turn 2 and 3.

[De Jokke]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34190.html

But a Mercedes source told Auto Motor und Sport on Monday: "It was our fault. We had incorrectly calibrated the maps."

Senior engineer Andy Shovlin confirmed: "Even we needed a couple of laps to understand what was going on and how to resolve it."

Anyone know what they mean by "calibrated the maps"?

They had a wrong deployment strategy when the car was lighter on fuel. They did not calibrate the speed gain due to less weight correctly, thus, the MGU-K deployed too long on the straight and the charging went down. As a result the power unit charged on the straight between turn 2 and 3.

They had the whole race weekend + a race sim on Friday, so bullshit, I smell something fishy!

[Phil]

What makes this to me somewhat baffling is that this is entirely software related. One would think both cars would have equal settings, equal maps. Given this, I'd assume both cars would have had the exact same problems, yet only Hamilton suffered it throughout the race, which suggests either they did not have the same maps (human error), or they raced on different maps due to different starting positions - though that would make little sense from what it sounds like.

[flynfrog]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34190.html

But a Mercedes source told Auto Motor und Sport on Monday: "It was our fault. We had incorrectly calibrated the maps."

Senior engineer Andy Shovlin confirmed: "Even we needed a couple of laps to understand what was going on and how to resolve it."

Anyone know what they mean by "calibrated the maps"?

It generally means calibrating the VE (volumetric efficiency) table in the ecu. It's the base for all of the engine calcs. I would guess that the F1 cars are much more advanced and may require additional curves based on all the extra wizbangs with the electric turbo that can change the VE of the engine. It might be less adaptable than a road car and require updates based on altitude and ambient conditions. It could really refer to any of the tables timing DBW ect. There are 100s of tables in a modern ECU.

I think in the automotive world calibration is referred to any part of the ECU. I had an ex gf who worked for MB in the calibration department. The hybrids were pretty complicated how the gearbox worked with the electric and gas motors.



http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/sd101


-edit-

They had a wrong deployment strategy when the car was lighter on fuel. They did not calibrate the speed gain due to less weight correctly, thus, the MGU-K deployed too long on the straight and the charging went down. As a result the power unit charged on the straight between turn 2 and 3.

This sound very likely. Sorta crazy that they have a map based on fuel burn car weight and MGU-K.

[Jolle]

I really wonder how Rosberg's contract position is now. He didn't do himself any favors on track (heavily discussed somewhere else) but his video log was, in my opinion, f1 being not just a sport but a marketing tool, not the best thing.
In contrast, outspoken Hamilton took a stint of radio silence from all of his social media for about two weeks after the Barcelona incident.

Together with the smart drive of Wehrlein today, could this be the beginning of the end for Rosberg with Mercedes?

[Wynters]

I don't think so. Rosberg is still extremely fast as everything up until the last lap proved. Whilst he does seem a little bit 'punchy' in wheel-to-wheel racing, with the Merc as dominant as it is that doesn't normally matter. As long as Mercedes can keep their drivers apart on track it shouldn't be a problem. Rosberg has shown that he can beat the rest of the field so the only reason to replace him is with a driver that is still fast enough to beat the rest of the field but not fast enough to compete with Hamilton. That would be a strategy decision that would reflect poorly on Mercedes as it would suggest that they are afraid of racing.

A Merc driver will win the WDC and Merc will win the WCC. The only things on the line, at the moment, are records and interest in the sport. Letting Rosberg go might sort the former but it definitely won't help the latter. Boring 1-2s with no excitement or interest, or a Prost-Senna rivalry with crashes, intrigue, drama and blame. Which is more likely to get people watching and talking about F1? Merc constantly gets mentioned as being in the lead when the crash happens or when the drama unfolds. They constantly get mentioned as leading the championships. But, thanks to driver branding, whilst we are all aware who Hamilton and Rosberg drive for, they are seen far more as individuals than as employees. Consider how they are spoken about compared to other key personnel at Mercedes. "Hamilton", "Rosberg", "Mercedes Team Boss Toto Wolff", "the Mercedes Pit Crew", "the Mercedes strategist".

I agree that there will be some negative fallout from keeping Rosberg and Hamilton together and letting them race but I'm guessing the extra exposure and excitement is likely to be well worth it.

[Phil]

Isn't Rosbergs contract already settled? I thought the 2 year extension was a done deal and signed?

Even so, maybe I'm biased (I try not to be; I try to be as objective as possible), but I do somehow get the feeling that Rosberg has a lot of support at Mercedes. In fact, I felt this somewhat during the Barcelona incident and I've felt it in Austria as well. It's up to any driver himself to decide how to live his life. There's no doubt Hamilton does like the spotlight and attracts a lot of attention for it, jetting around, having celebrity guests over. Yes, this is perhaps all good for Mercedes, the brand. The publicity. But I feel drivers like Rosberg, Vettel, yes Schumacher, are much better accepted among the actual racing team staff. They have the 'right' ethos and mentality: Methodical, quiet, calculated and hard-working, possibly with together with the team, hand in hand.

With Hamilton, as much as I am a fan of him and admire him for his driving skill, I sense that this is one aspect where he is rather limited and I am unsure how close he is to his own team of engineers and the racing staff. Back in 2013, there were reports that pointed towards Hamilton being rather unpopular at McLaren and that dating far back to when he joined the team in 2007. Yes, he was Ron's protege, but apart from Ron, from what I read, he was rather unpopular. Then of course Ron left, Withmarsh came and Button joined and we all now how charismatic Button is. I think since then, Hamilton has learned a lot in this regard, perhaps even from Button when he often looked at the other side of the garage and noticed the "happy bubble" (as he called it) that Button surrounded himself every day. I think this has gotten a lot better since Mercedes, but I do somehow sense that as a character, Hamilton is quite different personality wise. There's no doubt that he is an extraordinary driver, but in a team-sport, that may not always be enough to make the difference.

Is this a factor of why he has had more bad luck, technical glitches this year, especially glitches that should have been solvable? I'm not suggesting that Mercedes is sabotaging anything. Far from it. But maybe a possible reason why the team on his part of the garage is not operating at its full potential (or as well as the other side of the garage).

This is just speculation of course. People claiming that it would be daft for Mercedes, who are paying ridiculous amount of money to secure Hamilton as their driver would be mad to limit him in any way. Yet, there is the team Mercedes who makes these decision, the higher ups, the bosses... and then there is the actual team who carry out the work and make or break the performance... I do wonder sometimes if this makes any difference at all.

[Jolle]

What I've read that they agreed on a two year deal, but nothing is singed yet. All the stuff like media attention, how and on what way do you reflect the brand, how many red carpets do you have to walk, how many interviews, etc etc. Next to the marketing bit, a whole section about when and how to react on team orders (as we've learned from the Multi 21 incident and the last Monaco GP)

Hamilton and Rosberg aren't building their identities alone, it's also part of the big Mercedes strategy. A nice example of this was the advert before the Monaco GP, Lewis on a big AMG race boat, all blinged up and Nico as a successful family man on a different boat. Their image is so important to Mercedes because thats the way Mercedes does want to sell themselves. You can buy a E-Class and transport your family safe and in style or you can be bonkers in a AMG. Almost no other brand has it's products so far apart.
The image of a decent successful family man who is wining about his mistakes and blaming somebody else, doesn't fit into the profile. To reflect his image that Mercedes holds so dear, he should be a bit boring and reserved. Hamilton on the other hand, for the brand, should be a bit controversial. A bit on the edge, without crossing it (I also believe a lot of what he is doing is to build this image, he's even got a manager for it) and that he's in fact, in real life a bit more boring then he led us to believe.

For a billion dollar project, and the fat checks the drivers get, that's not to much to ask.

At the moment their family man ran the wild kid off the road. A family man doesn't do that.

[Pierce89]

Isn't Rosbergs contract already settled? I thought the 2 year extension was a done deal and signed?

Even so, maybe I'm biased (I try not to be; I try to be as objective as possible), but I do somehow get the feeling that Rosberg has a lot of support at Mercedes. In fact, I felt this somewhat during the Barcelona incident and I've felt it in Austria as well. It's up to any driver himself to decide how to live his life. There's no doubt Hamilton does like the spotlight and attracts a lot of attention for it, jetting around, having celebrity guests over. Yes, this is perhaps all good for Mercedes, the brand. The publicity. But I feel drivers like Rosberg, Vettel, yes Schumacher, are much better accepted among the actual racing team staff. They have the 'right' ethos and mentality: Methodical, quiet, calculated and hard-working, possibly with together with the team, hand in hand.

With Hamilton, as much as I am a fan of him and admire him for his driving skill, I sense that this is one aspect where he is rather limited and I am unsure how close he is to his own team of engineers and the racing staff. Back in 2013, there were reports that pointed towards Hamilton being rather unpopular at McLaren and that dating far back to when he joined the team in 2007. Yes, he was Ron's protege, but apart from Ron, from what I read, he was rather unpopular. Then of course Ron left, Withmarsh came and Button joined and we all now how charismatic Button is. I think since then, Hamilton has learned a lot in this regard, perhaps even from Button when he often looked at the other side of the garage and noticed the "happy bubble" (as he called it) that Button surrounded himself every day. I think this has gotten a lot better since Mercedes, but I do somehow sense that as a character, Hamilton is quite different personality wise. There's no doubt that he is an extraordinary driver, but in a team-sport, that may not always be enough to make the difference.

Is this a factor of why he has had more bad luck, technical glitches this year, especially glitches that should have been solvable? I'm not suggesting that Mercedes is sabotaging anything. Far from it. But maybe a possible reason why the team on his part of the garage is not operating at its full potential (or as well as the other side of the garage).

This is just speculation of course. People claiming that it would be daft for Mercedes, who are paying ridiculous amount of money to secure Hamilton as their driver would be mad to limit him in any way. Yet, there is the team Mercedes who makes these decision, the higher ups, the bosses... and then there is the actual team who carry out the work and make or break the performance... I do wonder sometimes if this makes any difference at all.

Sorry mods I know it's not technical but this post seem like a spot on analysis to me, so I upvoted, if I was wrong to do so, please let me know.

[Pierce89]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34190.html


Anyone know what they mean by "calibrated the maps"?

They had a wrong deployment strategy when the car was lighter on fuel. They did not calibrate the speed gain due to less weight correctly, thus, the MGU-K deployed too long on the straight and the charging went down. As a result the power unit charged on the straight between turn 2 and 3.

They had the whole race weekend + a race sim on Friday, so bullshit, I smell something fishy!

What exactly are you implying?

[iotar__]

Isn't Rosbergs contract already settled? I thought the 2 year extension was a done deal and signed?

Even so, maybe I'm biased (I try not to be; I try to be as objective as possible), but I do somehow get the feeling that Rosberg has a lot of support at Mercedes. In fact, I felt this somewhat during the Barcelona incident and I've felt it in Austria as well. It's up to any driver himself to decide how to live his life. There's no doubt Hamilton does like the spotlight and attracts a lot of attention for it, jetting around, having celebrity guests over. Yes, this is perhaps all good for Mercedes, the brand. The publicity. But I feel drivers like Rosberg, Vettel, yes Schumacher, are much better accepted among the actual racing team staff. They have the 'right' ethos and mentality: Methodical, quiet, calculated and hard-working, possibly with together with the team, hand in hand.

With Hamilton, as much as I am a fan of him and admire him for his driving skill, I sense that this is one aspect where he is rather limited and I am unsure how close he is to his own team of engineers and the racing staff. Back in 2013, there were reports that pointed towards Hamilton being rather unpopular at McLaren and that dating far back to when he joined the team in 2007. Yes, he was Ron's protege, but apart from Ron, from what I read, he was rather unpopular. Then of course Ron left, Withmarsh came and Button joined and we all now how charismatic Button is. I think since then, Hamilton has learned a lot in this regard, perhaps even from Button when he often looked at the other side of the garage and noticed the "happy bubble" (as he called it) that Button surrounded himself every day. I think this has gotten a lot better since Mercedes, but I do somehow sense that as a character, Hamilton is quite different personality wise. There's no doubt that he is an extraordinary driver, but in a team-sport, that may not always be enough to make the difference.

Is this a factor of why he has had more bad luck, technical glitches this year, especially glitches that should have been solvable? I'm not suggesting that Mercedes is sabotaging anything. Far from it. But maybe a possible reason why the team on his part of the garage is not operating at its full potential (or as well as the other side of the garage).

This is just speculation of course. People claiming that it would be daft for Mercedes, who are paying ridiculous amount of money to secure Hamilton as their driver would be mad to limit him in any way. Yet, there is the team Mercedes who makes these decision, the higher ups, the bosses... and then there is the actual team who carry out the work and make or break the performance... I do wonder sometimes if this makes any difference at all.

Sorry mods I know it's not technical but this post seem like a spot on analysis to me, so I upvoted, if I was wrong to do so, please let me know.

'Seems' means nothing. Long winded nonsense with no facts and pathological bias to excuse failures that are 100% driver's fault. I can't even bother to wade through it.

Backbone of internet upvoting culture, blind leading the blind.

[iotar__]

"Mercedes to decide on team orders in the coming days" http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... ys-795309/

What do they mean "decide"? You already used them in Monaco and didn't use them in Austria so instead of pretending decision explain yourself why. The logic now is that if it's Hamilton crashing in Spain both go out and team loses 43 point it's team orders in his favour in Monaco.

If it's one - two and Hamilton behind in Austria it's an undercut and different tyres. The opposite of team orders. Another differences: last lap and +37 and not -43. Hungary '14 no TO, Monaco '16 TO. Don't overwork yourself deciding what to do next. Now tell me about Mercedes nationality bias again please without a single evidence from material world.

[Just_a_fan]

With Hamilton, as much as I am a fan of him and admire him for his driving skill, I sense that this is one aspect where he is rather limited and I am unsure how close he is to his own team of engineers and the racing staff.

Talking to people I know who work at the factory (or who have relatives who do) he's a nice bloke at the get togethers. For example, a friend's sister is a cleaner (I think) and apparently he chatted as happily to her as anyone. No obvious "I'm a star" attitude.