Red Bull X1

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Post Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:31 pm

Even though I also suspect that Newey didn't spent time working on this(due to his busy work on the real F1 car) but only showed up for some PR pictures, it is worthy to mention that this people who are skeptical about making super-fast cars that achieve huge accelerations, has not knowledge in the level of F1 aerodynamicist to say such thing.

In 1930, people would think it was impossible to make cars go at Degner(Suzuka), for instance, with over 245kmh and reach more than 5 Gs there(pictures). The RB6, even with all the current restrictions, did that this year. It's needed to mention that the current wings are pathetically small, the bottom of the car's downforce is hugely limited and the tires aren't as wide as it could be(a wider tire would have more adhesion force due to molecular.... ).
ImageImage

Can people, who say that tires can't resist that much pressure, please tell me how huge trucks expose their tires to MUCH MORE weight than X1's total load and it doesn't blow. There are trucks which carry dozens of tones. So, for sure the tires would handle the big X1's(or any unrestricted car) load on them. THE PROBLEM IS: the tires are a very complicated thing regarding friction coefficient decrease versus load increase.

In the GT site they use a tire model where the tire when exposed to big pressures, only drops to 91% of it's efficiency remaining with a high 1.91 coefficient.

Can a tire maintain or have at least 1.5 of coefficient even when exposed to 10000kgs of load, for instance?

If such tire can be made then considering that, virtually, there is no limit to how much downforce you can generate(just increasing the wing's area would make downforce increase as one's wish), it would be possible to build a car able to corner Tabac in Monaco at 450kmh, reaching about 25Gs.

PS: All this neglectiong drag and necessity to ridicolous powerful engines. And even if the drag didn't allow the car to achieve 450kmh, it would corner Tabac at +350kph, at least.
Artur Craft
 
Joined: 5 Feb 2010

Post Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:08 am

I forgot to say that something is strange in the gt site calculations:

The downforce is too little, way less than the 2008 car's which had about 800kg at the front wing, 1100kgs at the rear wing and 1200kgs generated by the diffuser(all that for 200mph). Therefore, this tire values they use can't be real. The 2008 car's had grooved tires but still they would have been much faster if the tire's coefficient was anything near this almost 2 they use when submitted to big loads.
Artur Craft
 
Joined: 5 Feb 2010

Post Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:36 am

djqd36
 
Joined: 10 Nov 2010

Post Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:12 am

I still want to call BS on this.

I really doubt that it will turn a wheel in anger at all, and if it will, that it will set any time on any track that is capable of beating say, a Caterham 7.

If it's based on an IRL car, then I do not see it being faster than that IRLcar. It'd just be a quick rebody for styling, and without work on making it faster, you'd assume it would go slower.

I don't see the sense in building an actual car that is anything like as fast as they say it is: We already know that this is advertising for some game. If someone actually did build this car to go that fast IRL, what do you think the development cost would be? More than the development cost of the game?
tommylommykins
 
Joined: 12 May 2009

Post Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:41 pm

yeah, it just seems to be an improvised materialization of the car to promote even more the game.
Artur Craft
 
Joined: 5 Feb 2010

Post Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:17 am

I think Newey did have input in this. From the following article:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-a ... astest_car

----------------------

Newey's team says the starting point for the car was a low-drag, single-seat wing car with a glass canopy and covered wheels, powered by a forced induction engine. The early results included 1100 kilowatts of power at 15,000 revs and six Gs of lateral cornering grip.

But then Newey got involved, bringing ideas for fan-forced aerodynamics - banned from F1 in the 1970s after early successes by the Brabham team - to suck air from beneath the car. The result was the 450-plus top speed and eight Gs in corners, right on the limit for human endurance.

“The results were thrilling. X1 is about evolution. Delivering the optimum combination of tested technologies in a single integrated design,” says Newey. “This would be the future of racing were we not bound by regulations, but one that is achievable today."
Tamburello
 
Joined: 29 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Post Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:16 pm

mm, that doesn't eally mean very much though, It makes much more sense for newey to have been namedropped than for him to have done actual work. If it's a piece of advertising, then it's the advertising people who know best how to design the car.

Anyway, if the car is not real, then not only can you namedrop people, but you can do it with components, too. Like a sucked floor. After all, if it's never going to turn a wheel in anger, then you could sellotape an elephant facing the wrong way onto the car and claim it will squirt a waterjet out of its trunk to gain 400 kilojoules of extra energy for acceleration, for not longer than 6.6 seconds a lap ;)
Last edited by tommylommykins on Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tommylommykins
 
Joined: 12 May 2009

Post Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:24 pm

If they needed Adrian Newey to point out that suction fans could be "used" (rather, simulated) to speed up the X1 then the people making the games haven't been paying enough attention : the technology has been around for 40 odd years!

Hell, the McLaren F1 road car had suction fans as a standard feature, so I don't know why this virtual machine is getting so much attention : all it is (and will ever be) is some eye candy ...
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."
gridwalker
 
Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Location: Sheffield, UK

Post Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:57 pm

Hi,

reminds me of something I'm working on for a while:

Image

Image

Even though my design looks a bit outdated against the stunning X1.
It's a concept Formula 3 sized hybrid racing car called Fi-3 and it won't have a fan on its tail.
Image from the rFactor mod I'm creating.


Regards,
Jan
Jan_83
 
Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Location: Munich

Post Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:01 pm

Nice work, Jan! :wink:

How will you know the aero figures for it? will you test it in the CFD? or just arbitrarily atribute some values to it?
Artur Craft
 
Joined: 5 Feb 2010

Post Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:47 am

That is nice Jan.
autogyro
 
Joined: 4 Oct 2009

Post Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:17 pm

Can anyone explain what this image is all about?

It appears to be a "press release" type flyer about the release of the RB7, but what is the car shown on it?

Image

I am keen to know if anyone can tell me anything about this.

Note to mods, I know (or at least believe!) that this isn't an image of the RB7, but it is an announcement, perporting to be from Red Bull about the release of the RB7. Feel free to delete/move as required.
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?
forty-two
 
Joined: 1 Mar 2010

Post Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:21 pm

That's the Red Bull X2010, a car Adrian Newey designed for the game Gran Turismo 5.

http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/news/d5330.html

Don't worry, we won't see a F1 car that crazy, at least not this year, I think! :lol:
gerhard
 
Joined: 25 Nov 2007

Post Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:26 pm

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8939

Red Bull X1, there is a thread on the board abou it
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci
747heavy
 
Joined: 6 Jul 2010

Post Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:36 pm

Thanks guys. I do remember now. But I don't remember seeing a nose-on shot of that.

Looks a little bit like:
Image
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?
forty-two
 
Joined: 1 Mar 2010

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