2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
621
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

thinking of useful things for the 'dummy' crankshaft to do, I thought ..... turn a 'Comprex' supercharger
this might be interesting
http://e-collection.library.ethz.ch/ese ... 831-02.pdf

if you have a single with inherent vibration there's merit in a elastomer mounting pseudo-pivoted around the centre of percussion (like MZ used)
the Condors built for the Swiss army were (4 stroke) 350 Ducati singles with the engine mounting modified in this way
ok the 4 stroke big single makes a 90 deg V twin etc look attractive


some new engine types seem to be powered by conflation or moving goalposts

if designed for optimal efficiency, the big 1950s aircraft engines would have approached 40% bte (compounded Merlin schemed and Wrights built)
but they had designed-in a cr around 7 to allow eg 67" abs 'boost' for very high takeoff power, though 'boost' in cruise was only 36" abs
(and the Nomad had no better efficiency (just cheaper fuel) than the Wright)

40% best bte does not also give 40% bte at typical (low) power

Muniix
Muniix
14
Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 13:29
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

Tommy Cookers wrote:thinking of useful things for the 'dummy' crankshaft to do, I thought ..... turn a 'Comprex' supercharger
this might be interesting
http://e-collection.library.ethz.ch/ese ... 831-02.pdf

if you have a single with inherent vibration there's merit in a elastomer mounting pseudo-pivoted around the centre of percussion (like MZ used)
the Condors built for the Swiss army were (4 stroke) 350 Ducati singles with the engine mounting modified in this way
ok the 4 stroke big single makes a 90 deg V twin etc look attractive


some new engine types seem to be powered by conflation or moving goalposts

if designed for optimal efficiency, the big 1950s aircraft engines would have approached 40% bte (compounded Merlin schemed and Wrights built)
but they had designed-in a cr around 7 to allow eg 67" abs 'boost' for very high takeoff power, though 'boost' in cruise was only 36" abs
(and the Nomad had no better efficiency (just cheaper fuel) than the Wright)

40% best bte does not also give 40% bte at typical (low) power
Swiss auto have done a lot of development on the PWS and now call it the Hyprex, they have dropped the direct drive to the engine and use the exhaust enthalpy to assist rotor rotation, controlling the angle the exhaust enters via rotating the exhaust housing combined with a small 250 watt electric motor to 'trim' the speed. They have developed a simplified real time physics model to use to control throtles, and valves based on temperature and pressure sensors of each port to achieve really good response and performance. Here is a link to the paper Titled "Modeling and Control of Pressure-Wave Supercharged Engine Systems" Just realised it was the same one you referenced !!! and one good reason to use the new Automotive ARM 64 bit SoC's with 96 GPU cores for doing the real time physics calculation.
e-collection.library.ethz.ch/eserv/eth: ... 831-02.pdf
The fast engine torque respose and the high boost pressure available over the entire engine speed range make them preferable over turbo or supercharging with small engines, up to 2.65 bar of boost is available. Someone has developed a controller for constant torque, that is an interesting boost graph, Control over the external EGR is possible, and they're talking of coating the rotor to act as the catalytic converter.

I remember Buell came up with a fancy engine mount system for his first sports bikes to direct mount the HD engine, controlling the DOF to minimise that engines heart beat. The first Buell's also had a decent aero package and used the cooling flow to provide a small thrust.

That Variable Speed Ring/Sun gear Manolis posted would be interresting read more information on, explaining the cut on the gears.

Where it gets interesting in reading the 2015 RMIT paper on a two stroke Rotax modified with direct injection and hydrogen assisted jet ignition mentioned previously by JAW that also references the Pattakon two stroke. Was in the different combustion processes they could achieve by timing when events happened. Early, stratified and diffusion combustion gave some control over pressure when the crank rod angle is more efficient at converting cylinder pressure to rotational torque and less negative energy. Using Hydrogen to simplify the combustion simulation to compare with experimental data.

Best BTE I remember when my Father rebuilt a Seagull 5.5 hp outboard that was likely 15% efficienct (He also worked on the Blue Streak Missile project in South Australia), towing another boat with that engine didn't slow down just used more fuel! It had a 20:1 fuel oil ratio, and wouldn't start after it was rebuilt, not cold on that fuel oil ratio.

Modern engines are nearly three times that now, 50% should be possible with small engines, if well optimised. Like the Pattakon OPRE that uses the slower acceleration of piston motion around bdc for the, late compression, combustion and early power period, that is clever, the kind of thinking needed to achieve good efficiency. Rather than the rapid acceleration as the big end moves away both vertically and horizontally, where peak piston speed is ~76 degrees, and midstroke ~82 degrees.

Another interesting item I noticed was Solvay who provided materials and support for the Solar Impulse 2 flying around the world on solar power, is reviving the Polimotor project. Using light weight composite reinforced polymers to make engine components, including parts of the crank train (piston, oil ring, connecting rod, gudgen pin) in a high performance turbocharged engine. The valve guides, water and fuel pump impellors and housings, fuel rails, gears, turbo (compressor?) housing, inlet runners, coolant ducting and connections, and the 4 cylinder block, sump pan . . . Weight reduction and near net shape injection moulding or 3d printed.

Making the piston skirt from injection molded polymers a two part piston, each part optimised for its requirements, alloy (2.85 grams/cm3) crown and cfrp (1.7grams/cm3) skirt. Has advantages, a larger piston can be lighter where that suits. The crown can use thermal barrier coatings on top to reflect heat for better combustion and underneath to insulate heat from the skirt, galleries for cooling and other complex geometries are easier as the skirt comes out of the mould in nearly net shape using less energy to manufacture and less machining effort afterwards.

One thing I know is that the Bishop valve on the 450 single, produced over 70 hp and around 55 nm, without pushing the bottom end and the engine was ~3 kg lighter, making the bike really light. Not many light engines perform this well.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

Tommy Cookers wrote:
....If you have a single with inherent vibration there's merit in a elastomer mounting pseudo-pivoted around the centre of percussion (like MZ used)...

...if designed for optimal efficiency, the big 1950s aircraft engines would have approached 40% bte (compounded Wrights)
but they had designed-in a cr around 7 to allow eg 67" abs 'boost' for very high takeoff power, though 'boost' in cruise was only 36" abs
(and the Nomad had no better efficiency (just cheaper fuel) than the Wright)

Well T-C, as it happens, the Norton Commando also utilized that frequency matched rubber mount vibe-quelling system - but forgot to add a rev/time at max rpm limiter- so the poor old things were caned to destruction, in utter 'isolation' of the vibes.. & the same fundamental issue plagued MZ's too, even if they were a bit more robust, design-wise...

Ironically, Harley-Davidson took up the Norton 'isolastic' anti-vibe system, but had other measures to prevent
'ham-fisted' operators destroying them before the warranty period was up...

As for the Napier Nomad, it is another classic British 'defeat wrested from the jaws of victory' case..
..it was not only superior to the over-complexified/unreliable Wright mechanically, but the heavy fuel density it used also provided - for far better payload/range/fuel load figures too..

A matter studiously ignored by military helicopter purchasing teams in favour of the far less efficient gas-turbines, which have held a 'commercial' stranglehold, ever since the Nomad's untimely ( & political-based) demise..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

Muniix wrote: ...One thing I know is that the Bishop valve on the 450 single, produced over 70 hp and around 55 nm, without pushing the bottom end and the engine was ~3 kg lighter, making the bike really light. Not many light engines perform this well.
If you think 70hp from a 450cc single is somehow impressive Muniix, then I suggest you check the 'Ryger' link I posted a couple of pages back.. they claim 70hp from a 125 single ( & - N/A - but 2T , of course)..

& for forced induction 2T power density, check back to my link on page 5 of this thread, for the Garrett/NASA design proposal showing a hi-efficiency 2T CI compound helo-mill, making ~1000hp from a bit over 2 litres capacity..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Muniix
Muniix
14
Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 13:29
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

J.A.W. wrote:
Muniix wrote: ...One thing I know is that the Bishop valve on the 450 single, produced over 70 hp and around 55 nm, without pushing the bottom end and the engine was ~3 kg lighter, making the bike really light. Not many light engines perform this well.
If you think 70hp from a 450cc single is somehow impressive Muniix, then I suggest you check the 'Ryger' link I posted a couple of pages back.. they claim 70hp from a 125 single ( & - N/A - but 2T , of course)..

& for forced induction 2T power density, check back to my link on page 5 of this thread, for the Garrett/NASA design proposal showing a hi-efficiency 2T CI compound helo-mill, making ~1000hp from a bit over 2 litres capacity..
Yes, but it was very fuel efficient and had a nice fat torque curve, fatter curve than the 55hp production engine, and used
less fuel. wasn't the 100hp the 300cc engine produced, The Ryger is very peaky and uses a disproportonate amount of fuel.
Boosting with up to 3.7 bars depending on rpm, has achieved over 60% (66) thermal efficiency, the Ryger would use 5 times the specific fuel.
There really needs to be a metric that puts weight to efficiency and rpm range where better than 75% or torque is available. Maybe the average power over the top 50% of rpm with a specific fuel consumption factor. That would save a lot of 'mine bigger than yours' debates. "but she likes a good looking one" and that was why hitler ...

Example 100 hp max rpm and 50 at half of max rpm with a 33% thermal efficiency gives 33% of 75 = 25 FP fuzzy power

That would put the Ryger around 3fp

It would be consuming a lot of energy pumping air at the rate they claim.
Last edited by Muniix on 10 Dec 2016, 13:49, edited 1 time in total.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

I really think you need to read some more of relevant data sets presented in this thread, eh - Muniix..

Ol' Adolf, for all his faults, was at least a keen 'motorhead' who ensured scientific development funding support for motorsports..

& as for "peaky" you might like to note the 1960's 2T G.P. 125's - V4s which needed 10+ gear ratios...
Yet the final 2T units - though limited to single cylinders & 6-speeds, ( like the Ryger) were flexible enough to lap at record speeds..

If you imagine any N/A single cylinder 4T bike could better Simoncelli's all-time G.P. 250 best lap of P.Is. - when Moto2 cannot..
.. then to be frank, you're "dreaming".. ( & the 250cc 4T Moto3 bikes are still over 5 seconds a lap slower)..


As a technical thought exercise, try formulating a proposal for a viable 4T professional chainsaw..

To match the useful/needful torque characteristics of the 2T, it would require forced induction..
To match the size/weight/portability of the 2T, it would be constructed from materials such as Ti...
To match the usage profile of the 2T, it would require a dry sump/multiple oil pump/oil cooler system.

Now try to make a cost effective business case for production/sale/warranty back-up for such a 4T..

Not so easy, is it?

Even Honda can't do it..
& they tried real hard to match 2T 500cc G.P. bikes with their 4T NR twin-rod, oval-piston, 8V.. to no avail..

So they changed the rules of that sports code, to allow X2 capacity 4T's, & this not possible with chainsaws..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Muniix
Muniix
14
Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 13:29
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

J.A.W. wrote:I really think you need to read some more of relevant data sets presented in this thread, eh - Muniix..

Ol' Adolf, for all his faults, was at least a keen 'motorhead' who ensured scientific development funding support for motorsports..

& as for "peaky" you might like to note the 1960's 2T G.P. 125's - V4s which needed 10+ gear ratios...
Yet the final 2T units - though limited to single cylinders & 6-speeds, ( like the Ryger) were flexible enough to lap at record speeds..

If you imagine any N/A single cylinder 4T bike could better Simoncelli's all-time G.P. 250 best lap of P.Is. - when Moto2 cannot..
.. then to be frank, you're "dreaming".. ( & the 250cc 4T Moto3 bikes are still over 5 seconds a lap slower)..


As a technical thought exercise, try formulating a proposal for a viable 4T professional chainsaw..

To match the useful/needful torque characteristics of the 2T, it would require forced induction..
To match the size/weight/portability of the 2T, it would be constructed from materials such as Ti...
To match the usage profile of the 2T, it would require a dry sump/multiple oil pump/oil cooler system.

Now try to make a cost effective business case for production/sale/warranty back-up for such a 4T..

Not so easy, is it?

Even Honda can't do it..
& they tried real hard to match 2T 500cc G.P. bikes with their 4T NR twin-rod, oval-piston, 8V.. to no avail..

So they changed the rules of that sports code, to allow X2 capacity 4T's, & this not possible with chainsaws..
Anyone can get extreme power out of an engine, look at the American big bore/block v8 engines producing over 8,000 hp, that's approximately 1000 hp a cylinder. The important metric is consumption which is really efficiency and with increasing efficiency comes greater power. So the ultimate indicator of design is Efficiency / Consumption.

When I researched the HAJI 2T engine, the Hydrogen assisted jet ignition, i assumed its thermal efficiency would be close to or could be close to 60% thermal efficiency when the results showed it be only 30%, that just seemed fundamentally wrong for an engine that had such a highly optomised combustion process when the practically the same people in the same institutions were achieving over 60% with ultralean (lambda between 3-4) with very high compression ratio's and high boost (3-4 bar) using similar combustion technology on a 4T.

The hand tools are now electric, with all the advantages they offer.
I do want to learn, and being challenged intellegently is always good.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

Actually, Muniix,
It is aerodynamicist/aero-engineer Sir Stanley Hooker, who developed war-winning supercharger tech at R-R,
then went on to gas turbines, such as powered the Concorde ( still the only successful supersonic civil aircraft),
& 'fixed' the R-R RB 211 turbofan.. who established the essential "metric" difference between 2T & 4T..

To paraphrase Sir Stanley - & as he rightly reckoned:
"4T's make one useful power stroke - followed by three - to wear the engine out."

Those extreme top fuel mills prove the point, with a TBO measured in mere seconds... ( technically a"flash reading")

No N/A G.P. 4T engine has come near the ~440 hp/Ltr that the (sadly now banned) final 125cc 2T bikes produced,
& in a tractable, reliable form, even though limited to only a single cylinder & a mere 6-speeds in the gearbox..

As for "...hand tools are now electric..." - I suggest you visit a logging crew doing the big timber cutting,
I expect they will laugh at such a suggestion.. & hand you a big torquey 2T chainsaw to try.. there's a "challenge"..

Seriously though, although electric motors do make good torque from the get go rpm-wise, 'bout
the only really successful remote area electric machines are the NASA plutonium fuel-cell powered
deep space probes, & compare their unstinting performance over the decades since launch with the
relative failure of the European space probe comet lander, which when in the dark, quickly ran out
of battery power - & which it was unable to replenish by solar energy collection...
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Muniix
Muniix
14
Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 13:29
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

J.A.W. wrote:Actually, Muniix,
It is aerodynamicist/aero-engineer Sir Stanley Hooker, who developed war-winning supercharger tech at R-R,
then went on to gas turbines, such as powered the Concorde ( still the only successful supersonic civil aircraft),
& 'fixed' the R-R RB 211 turbofan.. who established the essential "metric" difference between 2T & 4T..

To paraphrase Sir Stanley - & as he rightly reckoned:
"4T's make one useful power stroke - followed by three - to wear the engine out."

Those extreme top fuel mills prove the point, with a TBO measured in mere seconds... ( technically a"flash reading")

No N/A G.P. 4T engine has come near the ~440 hp/Ltr that the (sadly now banned) final 125cc 2T bikes produced,
& in a tractable, reliable form, even though limited to only a single cylinder & a mere 6-speeds in the gearbox..

As for "...hand tools are now electric..." - I suggest you visit a logging crew doing the big timber cutting,
I expect they will laugh at such a suggestion.. & hand you a big torquey 2T chainsaw to try.. there's a "challenge"..

Seriously though, although electric motors do make good torque from the get go rpm-wise, 'bout
the only really successful remote area electric machines are the NASA plutonium fuel-cell powered
deep space probes, & compare their unstinting performance over the decades since launch with the
relative failure of the European space probe comet lander, which when in the dark, quickly ran out
of battery power - & which it was unable to replenish by solar energy collection...
The air force looked into using a pressure wave supercharging of the rotax? 2T engines UAV's to compensate for altitude and extend the range, their is a paper I read available on line, that was interresting, using the Nasa code to do the simulations of the PWS against experiments, I think this was the paper where the researcher noted he made an error with one paramater so the outcome was wrong .

Here the logging crews are experimenting with a truck fitted with solar arrays charging high density standardised battery packs and that proved really successfull with the high reliability of the units and plenty of electrical power for the crews personal use. That was for a more mixed use, some liquid fuelled some electric, and they were learning what to use when. The improved reliability was what stood out in the electric tools favour. With fast swap packs.

America has run out of pu-238 for their RTG's they have even bought as much as they can from Russia, they need to produce some more but they don't have the infrastructure to do so anymore, especially since they canned the thorium reactor project at Oak Ridge which could produce it very effectively as it is a majority of its waste products.

The future for ICE and liquid power is being pressured at both ends, solutions need to be found that have high efficiency/low consumption and low oxides of nitrogen , unburned hydrocarbons, co and co2 emissions in that order i would guess. Anything less than 50% will just not be viable.

A friend of mine commented that fuel is taxed on Internal combustion use, so if you used an External combustor you could avoid paying the excise! as does large industry.

I think the diesel gate may have been caused by the engineers trying to push the power and efficiency in the engine mapping. I can't see the engineers being that unethical purposefully putting in a defeat device and not blowing the wissle on it. A highly talentled engineer has some influence. I know this is a little side tracked but is a logical progression on from efficiency.

Brian Coat
Brian Coat
99
Joined: 16 Jun 2012, 18:42

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

"I can't see the engineers being that unethical purposefully putting in a defeat device"

The facts suggest that is exactly what they did, in several car manufacturers, and continue to do.

But there are probably better forums/threads for this one than F1T/2T.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

For sure B-C, & according to recent news it is a software fix to correct it.. & so never a hardware problem, anyhow.

Goes to show how much power 'marketing' have.. case in point, here's a interesting DI 2T Yamaha patent..

http://www.google.com/patents/US5806473

Seems Yamaha had a 'clean-green' DI 2T sports road motorcycle ( see Fig 26/27) ready to go,
- but canned it in favour of the also listed 4T triple - which has gone on sale.. while ironically - it is being marketed,
as being 'in the spirit' of Yamaha's iconic sporting 2T machines, even mimicking their styling/livery schemes..

To their credit Yamaha, alone of the Nippon 'big four' motorcycle makers to continue offering larger capacity
2T off-road competition ( MX) machines, has even extended its range by producing the YZ250X enduro...

Too bad they haven't gone a wee bit further & utilized their DI-tech to make it road-rules compliant too..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

Muniix wrote:
Here the logging crews are experimenting with a truck fitted with solar arrays charging high density standardised battery packs and that proved really successfull with the high reliability of the units and plenty of electrical power for the crews personal use. That was for a more mixed use, some liquid fuelled some electric, and they were learning what to use when. The improved reliability was what stood out in the electric tools favour. With fast swap packs.

America has run out of pu-238 for their RTG's they have even bought as much as they can from Russia, they need to produce some more but they don't have the infrastructure to do so anymore, especially since they canned the thorium reactor project at Oak Ridge which could produce it very effectively as it is a majority of its waste products.

The future for ICE and liquid power is being pressured at both ends, solutions need to be found that have high efficiency/low consumption and low oxides of nitrogen , unburned hydrocarbons, co and co2 emissions in that order i would guess. Anything less than 50% will just not be viable.

Muniix,
- by all means post a link that cites the electric chainsaw research showing it outperforms 2T units in the field.

Forgive me if I find it difficult to accept it at face value, but given the power requirements,
weight & latent energy comparison between even the best batteries & liquid hydrocarbon fuel...

50% efficiency is only just being approached by current F1 tech at huge cost/complexity, & in disregard of
road rules emissions compliance.. ( & they are likely to change too, given research showing diesel particulates
are implicated in human brain degeneration/early onset of dementia..).

As for the US/NASA 'running out' of Pu for space probes, President Trump will get that sorted out tout suite,
- after all, what have the French done with theirs?

Maybe James Cameron can use his deep diver to recover the Pu pile which sank to the Pacific seabed,
- when Apollo 13 unexpectedly returned with theirs...
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

User avatar
FW17
168
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

That Yamaha idea is almost 20 years old and is out of context today.

Todays the 2t NA is better than a 4t NA, but it is irrelevant as pressurized small capacity engines are what need now.

There is no one working on these at the moment, neither snow mobile or outboard or small airplane engine manufacturers.

DeltaHawk DH180A4 has major significance in this as it is a kerosene 2stoke ported turbo engine.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

FW17 wrote:That Yamaha idea is almost 20 years old and is out of context today.

Todays the 2t NA is better than a 4t NA, but it is irrelevant as pressurized small capacity engines are what need now.

There is no one working on these at the moment, neither snow mobile or outboard or small airplane engine manufacturers.

DeltaHawk DH180A4 has major significance in this as it is a kerosene 2stoke ported turbo engine.

FW17 do feel free to explain in technical terms - what "out of context" & "irrelevant " actually means to you..
..really, such bald statements do not provide a proper substitute for quoted data sets, &/or links to same..

& esp' given that Yamaha still sell 2Ts.. including DI outboard engines - just as described in that patent..

Military application 2Ts, ( inc' E-TEC Evinrudes) have long since been multi-fuel capable, from kerosene
to heavy fuels..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

User avatar
FW17
168
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

Reason for Yamaha to put the injector on the cylinder wall was the cost. In 1997 a direct injector may have been a significant cost but that is not the case in the last decade.

NA has limited application today and is irrelevant today and most R&D today is focused on turbocharged engines. Developing 2T with turbo charging should be the area of focus rather than NA.