2014 Fuel Flow

[Kansas]

im afraid that the ferrari engine is as rumor proclaimed not as powerful as merc and renault. That's why they could pack everything tightly at the rear with smaller sidepod and airbox.

[motobaleno]

im afraid that the ferrari engine is as rumor proclaimed not as powerful as merc and renault. That's why they could pack everything tightly at the rear with smaller sidepod and airbox.

that seems more an hope than a fact

[PhillipM]

im afraid that the ferrari engine is as rumor proclaimed not as powerful as merc and renault. That's why they could pack everything tightly at the rear with smaller sidepod and airbox.

that seems more an hope than a fact

Not to mention completely counterintuitive with fuel flow and rev limited formula. It would actually be the most powerful engines that need the smallest radiators because they are the ones which are the most efficient.
The naysayers are still thinking in terms of last years regs instead of putting their brain in gear before engaging mouth/fingers.

[Kansas]

im afraid that the ferrari engine is as rumor proclaimed not as powerful as merc and renault. That's why they could pack everything tightly at the rear with smaller sidepod and airbox.

that seems more an hope than a fact

Not to mention completely counterintuitive with fuel flow and rev limited formula. It would actually be the most powerful engines that need the smallest radiators because they are the ones which are the most efficient.
The naysayers are still thinking in terms of last years regs instead of putting their brain in gear before engaging mouth/fingers.

efficient or not, massive heat are generated with high pressurized air via turbo.

And in qualifying, driver will go flat out to gain better grid slot. Lacking in power might compromise qualifying performance.

[PhillipM]

efficient or not, massive heat are generated with high pressurized air via turbo.

And in qualifying, driver will go flat out to gain better grid slot. Lacking in power might compromise qualifying performance.

Yes, but given you are fuel limited, you aren't going to be turning the turbo up for qualifying, so you will still have the most powerful engine being the most efficient one. More power = less waste heat.

[Kansas]

efficient or not, massive heat are generated with high pressurized air via turbo.

And in qualifying, driver will go flat out to gain better grid slot. Lacking in power might compromise qualifying performance.

Yes, but given you are fuel limited, you aren't going to be turning the turbo up for qualifying, so you will still have the most powerful engine being the most efficient one. More power = less waste heat.

i dont think there's fuel restriction for qualifying???

As in the car will only complete 2-3 laps run that hardly wasted 50kg of the fuel?

As for waste heat, those will be converted to electric energy by MGU-H.

You reminded me, with lesser exhaust air produce might compromise their energy harvesting as well compared to Merc and Renault.

Merc and Renault can compromise their less efficient fuel usage with energy harvested from MGU-H.

[henra]

Yes, but given you are fuel limited, you aren't going to be turning the turbo up for qualifying, so you will still have the most powerful engine being the most efficient one. More power = less waste heat.

Only partly correct. You are not exactly fuel (amount) limited in qualifying (that will be only relevant during the race) but fuel flow limited (100kg/h).
Thus efficency will be an important factor (but not the only one) besides raw max power of the engine + electric systems determining the available power during Quali.

[motobaleno]

efficient or not, massive heat are generated with high pressurized air via turbo.

And in qualifying, driver will go flat out to gain better grid slot. Lacking in power might compromise qualifying performance.

Yes, but given you are fuel limited, you aren't going to be turning the turbo up for qualifying, so you will still have the most powerful engine being the most efficient one. More power = less waste heat.

i dont think there's fuel restriction for qualifying???

As in the car will only complete 2-3 laps run that hardly wasted 50kg of the fuel?

maybe you are forgetting the fuel FLOW restriction...that's the real limit

[Kansas]

maybe you are forgetting the fuel FLOW restriction...that's the real limit

well, thanks for reminding. and again, different fuel provider are using different fuel mix with different density.

Anyway, i just done some rough calculation of fuel flow restriction compared to last year.

Take 140kg of fuel for example for 1 and half hour race. Which is quite standard for 2013 season.

140/90 = 1.56kg/min x 60 = 93.33kg/h

The fuel flow restriction actually increased in 2014 with 100kg/h, hardly an issues in qualifying.

[Vanja #66]

Yes, and with 100kg per race from now on, average flow would be roughly 67 kg/h... Still not getting your point...

[ecapox]

Why are you guys even entertaining these questions/ideas?

He's starting backwards with an outcome: the Ferrari engine sucks. And then he comes up with ideas of why it sucks. Include the fact that we know absolutely nothing about the engine and this becomes a really stupid chain of posts.

[motobaleno]

maybe you are forgetting the fuel FLOW restriction...that's the real limit

well, thanks for reminding. and again, different fuel provider are using different fuel mix with different density.

Anyway, i just done some rough calculation of fuel flow restriction compared to last year.

Take 140kg of fuel for example for 1 and half hour race. Which is quite standard for 2013 season.

140/90 = 1.56kg/min x 60 = 93.33kg/h

The fuel flow restriction actually increased in 2014 with 100kg/h, hardly an issues in qualifying.

ehm...mate don't take it as personal but I think that you are missing some really basic technical issue: the flow is an INSTANTANEOUS quantity...extremely different from the average flow...
I suggest you to read the 300+ pages of the 3d about the turbo engines...

[Kansas]

maybe you are forgetting the fuel FLOW restriction...that's the real limit

well, thanks for reminding. and again, different fuel provider are using different fuel mix with different density.

Anyway, i just done some rough calculation of fuel flow restriction compared to last year.

Take 140kg of fuel for example for 1 and half hour race. Which is quite standard for 2013 season.

140/90 = 1.56kg/min x 60 = 93.33kg/h

The fuel flow restriction actually increased in 2014 with 100kg/h, hardly an issues in qualifying.

ehm...mate don't take it as personal but I think that you are missing some really basic technical issue: the flow is an INSTANTANEOUS quantity...extremely different from the average flow...
I suggest you to read the 300+ pages of the 3d about the turbo engines...

and its gonna be a problem during qualifying why??

In race of course that wont be the average flow. Energy discharged from MGU-h and k will compensate as well as team tuning down the flow for the sake of race completion.

Please enlighten me how is that going to be a problem in flat out qualifying when we are talking about 1 lap in Q3 and Q2 on each set of tires, 2-3 in Q3??

I think you need to reread the whole thread before questioning someone.

[PhillipM]

maybe you are forgetting the fuel FLOW restriction...that's the real limit

well, thanks for reminding. and again, different fuel provider are using different fuel mix with different density.

Anyway, i just done some rough calculation of fuel flow restriction compared to last year.

Take 140kg of fuel for example for 1 and half hour race. Which is quite standard for 2013 season.

140/90 = 1.56kg/min x 60 = 93.33kg/h

The fuel flow restriction actually increased in 2014 with 100kg/h, hardly an issues in qualifying.

No it didn't, there was no peak flow restriction previously, average flow is nothing like the same thing

[PhillipM]

Please enlighten me how is that going to be a problem in flat out qualifying when we are talking about 1 lap in Q3 and Q2 on each set of tires, 2-3 in Q3??

I think you need to reread the whole thread before questioning someone.

See above, I think you ought to read the thread yourself. Peak flow is limited, there was NO peak flow limit previously, working out the average fuel flow per race previously has no relevance, you're not calculating the right thing.