Can the 2014 engines self-start?

[SaturnVF1]

I remember hearing a few years back about how the new engines would be required to be able to start themselves in the event of a stall on track, which I thought was a brilliant idea for a number of reasons. Obviously they have the necessary motor and battery but I haven't read anything about that in a long time and didn't know if it was still required in the regs. Theoretically the KERS-equipped V8s could have as well.

[tuj]

As far as I know, they can't. As for your theory about the V8's, well, technically KERS couldn't be used below 100kph and it only provided around 100hp. I have heard, although I could be wrong, that the starter motors the teams use in the pits are around 200-250hp. And while the V6's should have less friction, I still don't think they can self-start. I agree your idea is a sound one though, and if development of the electronic motors and batteries continues in the direction its going, it should be feasible.

[langwadt]

As far as I know, they can't. As for your theory about the V8's, well, technically KERS couldn't be used below 100kph and it only provided around 100hp. I have heard, although I could be wrong, that the starter motors the teams use in the pits are around 200-250hp. And while the V6's should have less friction, I still don't think they can self-start. I agree your idea is a sound one though, and if development of the electronic motors and batteries continues in the direction its going, it should be feasible.

The starter is definitely not 200hp, it's a 24V motor I doubt it is a tenth of that

I've looked all over the regulations and I haven't been able to find any mention of a minimum speed for KERS

I don't see why they couldn't start using KERS, in the first regulation drafts they were supposed to run pure
electric in the pitlane

The 2012 Toyota Le Man hybrid could do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTvWSKjySW4

[Skippon]

YES the V6 power unit can self start. It is not KERS anymore which was a "push to pass" boost - its ERS and part of the engine torque mapping.
Did no one else spot the Force India trundling down the pit lane in full electric mode on Day 4!!! The original rules were to have electric only in the pit lane!!!
And you don't need a starter motor if you have a 120kW electric motor on the end of the crank!!!
KERS could start the engine but its use was forbidden - it was only intended as a bolt on boost.....

[fasterthanyou]

As far as I know, they can't. As for your theory about the V8's, well, technically KERS couldn't be used below 100kph and it only provided around 100hp. I have heard, although I could be wrong, that the starter motors the teams use in the pits are around 200-250hp. And while the V6's should have less friction, I still don't think they can self-start. I agree your idea is a sound one though, and if development of the electronic motors and batteries continues in the direction its going, it should be feasible.

The starter is definitely not 200hp, it's a 24V motor I doubt it is a tenth of that

I've looked all over the regulations and I haven't been able to find any mention of a minimum speed for KERS

I don't see why they couldn't start using KERS, in the first regulation drafts they were supposed to run pure
electric in the pitlane

The 2012 Toyota Le Man hybrid could do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTvWSKjySW4

Refer to the energy flow appendix

Edit: I suppose it only applies for the race start

[NTS]

I'm not sure they will do this, since you would want the battery to be as charged as possible (or as charged as allowed by the rules) at the actual start. That means not discharging it unnecessary on the warmup lap or for starting the engine. Fuel doesn't have this downside, because you could just put in a bit more fuel that you burn off before the start with no negative effects on weight etc.

[mkable1370]

I'm not sure they will do this, since you would want the battery to be as charged as possible (or as charged as allowed by the rules) at the actual start. That means not discharging it unnecessary on the warmup lap or for starting the engine. Fuel doesn't have this downside, because you could just put in a bit more fuel that you burn off before the start with no negative effects on weight etc.

I could see the self-start feature being a phenomenal benefit if a car happened to stall on-track after a spin, etc. In that event I'd think using the battery energy to restart the car would be much preferable to a car's race day coming to a premature end.

[NTS]

True, but they have anti-stall so a car stalled on track never really happens anymore? Last stall times I've seen a stopped engine was with the car already beached in the gravel unable to go anywhere anyway.

[simieski]

I have heard, although I could be wrong, that the starter motors the teams use in the pits are around 200-250hp..

Either these lads had their Weetabix or the power required is considerably less than stated. Or the starters they use are hugely over powered in comparison to what is required. Ok old vid,different eng, but you get the idea.

http://youtu.be/vJgI-9fthwU?t=30s

[WhiteBlue]

The 2014 regs were always designed for on track starting. I'd be surprised if they have eliminated the concept on the way.

[langwadt]

The 2014 regs were always designed for on track starting. I'd be surprised if they have eliminated the concept on the way.

With the speed limit at the start they would have to start on the grid before the warm up lap, that also means they have
a lap to recharge before the first lap

[dragosmp]

The 2014 regs were always designed for on track starting. I'd be surprised if they have eliminated the concept on the way.

Track starting wasn't required, but it was necessary due to the electric pit-lane. I'm thinking now it's more a "want" in stead of a "need".

[NTS]

If you compare it to a Prius, that basically does the same thing. It starts rolling on the power from an MGU, then at some point the computer decides it wants ICU power so it starts rotating the ICU by some klever gear-tricks (F1 engine wouldn't need that, it will as far as I understand always have a direct connection from MGU-K to ICU, no extra gears in between) and then just starts with ignition and injection to get power from an already rotating ICU. No real "starting" involved. That could be the way to go from 100% electric on pit-limiter to normal ICU + ERS operation.

Starting on the grid could be done the same way with the gearbox in neutral, but that would take some energy form the energy-store which I would think they want to have as full as possible when the lights go out? So as long as external starting is allowed on the grid I think they will keep the external starting.

[.poz]

AFAIK a V8 F1 engine require to be preheated before fireing up. This means, there is a external heater and pump connected to them and hot water/antifreeze is circulated through the system. I presume that V6 require the same.

[NTS]

Yes, but I think they do that in the pitlane prior to going to the grid? Takes something like 20 minutes to warm oil and water in the engine and the gearbox, then start the engine and have it run attached to the computer for a while cycling through gears and different revs. And then as far as I can tell from TV images, shut the engine off and push the car to the grid.