2014 transmissions

[rscsr]

If the power is constant between the gears then so is the acceleration.

But this also means that it is still important to have the best possible transmission ratio. It's basically the same as before with the V8. You just want to optimize your gear ratios to have the best possible acceleration.

Obviously you cant pick anything you want. But a broad power curve is much more forgiving than a peaky one. It means you can realisically chose a ratio spread to suit a season.

The best metric for this is the rpm band for 0.8x Pmax.

If you take this to its ultimate extreme of a constant power output you'd only need a single gear. Which is effectively what electric motors do.

To elaborate what I meant.
If you have discrete and different gear ratios, you have different accelerations between the gears. Because power=const. you are using the same power at a different speed. Therefore you have to have different forces/torque. And because F=m*a (or acceleration = available force divided by accelerated mass) your acceleration gets lower with higher gears.

In the following charts I have printed the available torque (power/speed; and speed is rpm*ratio) over the speed. With the purple line as a line of constant power.
(as a nice byproduct of these carts: you see why they run the V8s until 18000rpm and the V6s will be run at about 10 to 13000rpm)

first the V8:


and here the same with the V6s (Cosworth sustained power prediction used):


The ods sheet I used is made by me and you can find here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rge4x2adtd8yp ... 8%20V6.ods

[xxChrisxx]

You'll have to elaborate on your point, bacause that shows the V6 is clearly better.

Its not surprising because you picked the same operating speed range and had an extra gear to play with.

[rscsr]

You'll have to elaborate on your point, bacause that shows the V6 is clearly better.

Its not surprising because you picked the same operating speed range and had an extra gear to play with.

(and especially the V6 having a flatter power curve)

It's not a question which is better. I just wanted to show you my response on PhilipM's statement, that equal power in different gears means the same acceleration.

If the power is constant between the gears then so is the acceleration.

And anyway, I just used these engines, because I have something substancial about them.

[xxChrisxx]

In the context that I read his comments it was for a given road speed. And for a given road speed it doesnt matter where the power comes from, the power at the wheels is all that matters.

But I agree with what you say.

If we were to pick a metric from the graphs, it would be the area between the max power lines.

It would be interesting to see how few a gears would be needed to give similar performance to the v8 with 7 speeds

[rscsr]

In the context that I read his comments it was for a given road speed. And for a given road speed it doesnt matter where the power comes from, the power at the wheels is all that matters.

But I agree with what you say.

If we were to pick a metric from the graphs, it would be the area between the max power lines.

It would be interesting to see how few a gears would be needed to give similar performance to the v8 with 7 speeds

Ok, so at least something nice came out from my misunderstanding.

I colored the relevant areas (but unfortunately I don't really know, with which program I should measure these ares), which should be minimal and it seems to me, that even if you use only 1,4,7,8 would produce better acceleration than the V8 in standard config.

V8:
V6:

So I tried to optimize 3 gears on the V6:
V63G:

And even now, the V6 seems to have a much better usage of it's performance than the V8.
I expected something like this, but definitely not in this extent.

[321apex]

re: rscsr
Did you say the power is constant?
In my view it is not due to fuel limitations.

[321apex]

re:rscsr
Would you please do an analysis with the following range factored in for 8 gears:
Min - 9500 RPM
Max 11500 RPM

Is this a plausible rev range?
Thanks.

[321apex]

My purely theoretical analysis for gear ratios would go as follows while having 2200 RPM spread:
8th - 1.0 - 279-344 km/h
7th - 1.23 - 227-279
6th - 1.52 - 184-227
5th - 1.87 - 149-184
4th - 2.30 - 121-149
3rd - 2.83 - 99-121
2nd - 3.49 - 80-99
1st - 4.30 - to 80 km/h

is this close to what you are getting?

[strad]

either I or a bunch of people on here are gonna have a rude awakening about these fixed ratios.
I have stated I think it won't work out very well. Also I can't see the reasoning,,,cost savings? give me a break.

[rscsr]

either I or a bunch of people on here are gonna have a rude awakening about these fixed ratios.
I have stated I think it won't work out very well. Also I can't see the reasoning,,,cost savings? give me a break.

why shouldn't it work out?
According the Cosworth data, it is absolutely no problem to run the fixed ratios.
I also don't know why they have done it, but I'd guess it is because that they thought there will be enough troubles with the new engines anyway.

[Juzh]

either I or a bunch of people on here are gonna have a rude awakening about these fixed ratios.
I have stated I think it won't work out very well. Also I can't see the reasoning,,,cost savings? give me a break.

I'm curious as to why would you think that. It's been explained quite well here why this will be a non-issue. It's all mathematics and physics really, and it adds up in the end.
Really can't wait for the first practice and some onboard telemetry in melbourne so all guesstimations are finally put to rest.

[Kozy]

Just to add on RSCSR's charts, I've put together something similar here where you change the ratios and engine performance to see how it affects the the thrust curves. I'm not sure on most of the values for F1 cars so have just taken a bit of a guess, but if someone has some better data I can update the default values.

The torque curves are only crude two stage parabolic curves, but you should be able to get a decent enough representation from them for now.

Here's now my guesses for the V6(red) and V8 (blue) F1 cars look:

[mrluke]

re: rscsr
Did you say the power is constant?
In my view it is not due to fuel limitations.

The fuel limitations have negligable effect below 10k rpm and are constant above 10k rpm. Assuming that power output is directly proportional to fuel flow rate, the power should be constant to match the fuel flow.

In reality the power will peak slightly after 10kprm due to MGU-h input.

Kozy, you appear to have given the V6 a very peaky NA style power curve? Have you used the cosworth data for reference?

[Kozy]

re: rscsr
Kozy, you appear to have given the V6 a very peaky NA style power curve? Have you used the cosworth data for reference?

It's due to the crude torque curve control, it can only do variations of parabolic curves so it's pretty limited at the moment.

I've been meaning to implement a new version where you can drag points on a chart around to set any shaped curve you like but it's a nightmare to sort out.

[Juzh]

My purely theoretical analysis for gear ratios would go as follows while having 2200 RPM spread:
8th - 1.0 - 279-344 km/h
7th - 1.23 - 227-279
6th - 1.52 - 184-227
5th - 1.87 - 149-184
4th - 2.30 - 121-149
3rd - 2.83 - 99-121
2nd - 3.49 - 80-99
1st - 4.30 - to 80 km/h

is this close to what you are getting?

Simple logic tells me this is far from what will actually be used. There's no way 8th gear will span 279-344kmh. Especially not with 8 gear transmissions. Nor will 7th for that matter.