Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Redragon]

Speculation that McLaren want to ditch Honda before the season starts. I can firmly say this story is fabricated as it wouldn't be feasible now.

http://motor.as.com/motor/2017/02/28/fo ... 76700.html

They are not speculating, they are saying that even if Mclaren wants to find a new supplier by the beggining of the season they can't by contract.

[coco-bun]

Hey gang, -

Just read something on a Japanese F1 site that I have'nt been shared before so thought I'd share. I added a really quick and dirty English translation below.

Day 2 AM session when Stoffel stopped in the pits, apparently it had low fuel pressure... specifically, it was just ran out of fuel. Apparently with new cars, they test just how low they can get by with oil and fuel levels, but went a bit too far.

After that, e went back out again to rack up more miles while keeping an eye on data but on lap 29, he radioed he lost power and made an emergency pit. Nothing showed on the telemetry beforehand that would raise flags, and it was a sudden loss of power. Power unit was immediately swapped and simultaneously checked and showed few cylinders were "dead" (literal translation... 6気筒のうちのいくつかが死んでいる doesn't say what exactly they saw or how it 'died').

Hasegawa was nice enough to answer a few questions later that evening. When asked if it's an issue they've seen before he responded with 'no comment' but stating it is quite an issue. He also sounded as if it's a matter more serious than yesterday's oil tank issue.

Hasegawa also said they have done plenty of tests on the bench and an unexpected issue, requiring further investigation and need to understand the cause.

The power unit was aired back to HRD Sakura for investigation, but pre-season test will have to resume using another unit of the same spec. (I'm guessing Hasegawa said... doesn't specify) "After changing the power unit, we did laps in the afternoon with no issues. From that, we cannot rule out that it could have just been an issue with that individual power unit. Either way, we will have to run it as normal" (not sure what he meant by normal, 普通に走らせるしかない though).

Hope it's not a repost!

-----------------------------------
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 6475&tt=-1

レースドライバーとしてテストに初参加したストフェル・バンドーンが、2日目を担当した。ところがセッションが始まり、2周のチェック走行を終えピットに戻りかけたところでマシンが立ち往生してしまった。

　トラブル再発か？　しかし原因は、“撚圧低下”。もっと具体的に言えば、ただのガス欠であった。新車テストでは、燃料やオイルの最低量を実走で確認する。搭載撚量がギリギリ過ぎたということなのだろう。

　その後はシステムチェックなどで短い周回を繰り返しながら、バンドーンは順調に距離を重ねているように見えた。しかし29周目、「エンジンパワーが無い」と無線で伝えながら緊急ピットイン。

　テレメトリーに事前の兆候はなく、突然のトラブルだった。すぐにパワーユニットの全交換が決断され、並行して行われた調査で6気筒のうちのいくつかが死んでいることが判明した。

　夕方の囲み取材に応じてくれた長谷川祐介総責任者は、明らかに憔悴して見えた。これまで出たことがあるトラブルなのかという問いに対してはノーコメントだとしながらも、「非常に問題です」と言明。前日のオイルタンクの不具合とは比較にならない、深刻なトラブルであることを示唆した。

　長谷川総責任者は「ベンチテストで十分に回してきましたし、想定していないトラブルでした。非常に残念です。とにかく原因を究明しないとまずい」と述べる。

　問題のパワーユニットはすぐに、栃木県さくら市にある研究所『HRD Sakura』に空輸され、原因究明が行われる。しかし今回のテストでは、トラブルの出たパワーユニットと同じ仕様を使い続けるしかない。「交換後、午後の周回ではトラブルは出てません。その意味では問題のパワーユニット単体のトラブルだった可能性も排除できない。いずれにしても、普通に走らせるしかない」

　初っぱなから大きくつまずいた3年目のホンダF1。原因が究明できず、対策が施せない現状では、これ以上トラブルが出ないことを祈る他ない。


（Kunio Shibata）

[ringo]

Agree with PZ on the oil tank. It is a mercedes design, with the hole in the middle for the compressor inlet pipe.
Honda may have overlooked some tests which would reveal the issues with the shape of such an oil tank.
It makes me wonder if they have a chassis dyno, as this may have come up. Though i don't know if a chassis dyno can simulate the g forces from a high speed braking event over a few seconds.
The issue with dead cylinders may be due to them trying out the pre chamber technology for the first time. Seems to me like some kind of ignition issue or clogging.

Overall i am not worried. They are using the right technology to compete with mercedes and are simply finding their feet with the split turbo and the TJI.
Even if it takes 4 races for them to get it right, i am ok with that if it means they will be competitive for the remaining 3/4 of the season.

[fellowhoodlums]

Agree with PZ on the oil tank. It is a mercedes design, with the hole in the middle for the compressor inlet pipe.
Honda may have overlooked some tests which would reveal the issues with the shape of such an oil tank.
It makes me wonder if they have a chassis dyno, as this may have come up. Though i don't know if a chassis dyno can simulate the g forces from a high speed braking event over a few seconds.
The issue with dead cylinders may be due to them trying out the pre chamber technology for the first time. Seems to me like some kind of ignition issue or clogging.

Overall i am not worried. They are using the right technology to compete with mercedes and are simply finding their feet with the split turbo and the TJI.
Even if it takes 4 races for them to get it right, i am ok with that if it means they will be competitive for the remaining 3/4 of the season.

I agree that it's not a disaster, they'll get it right and it'll be competitive. My concern is the lack of proper chassis/aero testing and development because of this.

Takes a lot of trial and error sometimes and that is miles which we aren't getting enough off.

[godlameroso]

Doesn't sound too healthy here

https://twitter.com/publogic/status/836887591966420994

Oh that's just a loose coil pack connector

They had a decent'ish day today, even with the misfire Alonso did a 1:22.5, with an evaluation chassis at that.

[Soichiro]

Doesn't sound too healthy here

https://twitter.com/publogic/status/836887591966420994

Oh that's just a loose coil pack connector

They had a decent'ish day today, even with the misfire Alonso did a 1:22.5, with an evaluation chassis at that.

Is that from today? - posted March 1st 2017 02:35 AM (that time is shown to me - my zone is CET)?

[Frafer]

I was at montmelo today, McLaren d rating just before caixa sign, 600 meters before first corner rear LEDs flashing

[SameSame]

I was at montmelo today, McLaren d rating just before caixa sign, 600 meters before first corner rear LEDs flashing

Ouch. Maybe that's proof they have a more efficient combustion concept and that it is really hurting their energy recovery.

[Postmoe]

I was at montmelo today, McLaren d rating just before caixa sign, 600 meters before first corner rear LEDs flashing

Ouch. Maybe that's proof they have a more efficient combustion concept and that it is really hurting their energy recovery.

Would that mean less recovery?


It os perhaps a stupid question, but I thought lean combustion was rich in gasses and subsequently, good for turbine harvesting.

[SameSame]

I was at montmelo today, McLaren d rating just before caixa sign, 600 meters before first corner rear LEDs flashing

Ouch. Maybe that's proof they have a more efficient combustion concept and that it is really hurting their energy recovery.

Would that mean less recovery?


It os perhaps a stupid question, but I thought lean combustion was rich in gasses and subsequently, good for turbine harvesting.

The more efficient the combustion process is the less energy the exhaust gasses will have if I understand it correctly. More of the total energy is given to the ICE leaving less energy in the exhaust flow to be harvested.

Edit: I think Hasagawa said that one of the challenges of improving the ICE efficiency was that less exhaust energy was available and that this would require a turbine redesign.

[Chicane]

Hasegawa : “The past two days have been difficult for us due to the power unit issues we encountered. However, today we were able to make some progress and complete our programme, in which we tested the durability and deployment of the PU in accordance with our schedule.

“We have already found a solution to the oil tank issue we had on the first day with Fernando, and we will shortly receive clarification from Honda R&D in Sakura on the root cause of the power failure experienced in Stoffel’s car yesterday. We proved certain durability in today’s session and we hope to make further advances together with McLaren tomorrow.”



http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2017/pr ... esting2017

[DiogoBrand]

One question that's always bugging me is:
Isn't McLaren Honda having the same sort of problem with the engine being developed in Japan, that Toyota had with their development in Germany? I mean, wouldn't a factory in the UK benefit their integration by like a lot?

[PlatinumZealot]

Too expensive and limited returns, what they do now is fine. A day or two extra in delievery time is all.

[taperoo2k]

One question that's always bugging me is:
Isn't McLaren Honda having the same sort of problem with the engine being developed in Japan, that Toyota had with their development in Germany? I mean, wouldn't a factory in the UK benefit their integration by like a lot?

They've got a UK base in Milton Keynes http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/126317

[DiogoBrand]

One question that's always bugging me is:
Isn't McLaren Honda having the same sort of problem with the engine being developed in Japan, that Toyota had with their development in Germany? I mean, wouldn't a factory in the UK benefit their integration by like a lot?

They've got a UK base in Milton Keynes http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/126317

Oh, I knew it at some point, just didn't remember anymore. But are the logistic issues from having the factory in Japan negligible?