Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

I don't think it matters to them much any more this season, they want to win, and they have at the very least a chassis capable of doing so. More important is to get the power unit up to a decent level, so if they have to take penalties so be it. It's much easier to score points from the back of the grid with a much faster car, than it is to start from near the back of the grid with a mediocre car(except at places where it's impossible to pass).

[63l8qrrfy6]

They do however need to start gathering reliability data by running high mileage components. If they continue swapping parts at the current rate they will end the season without accruing 5 races on any systems and go into 2018 without a track proven power unit.

Sure they can still do durability work on the dyno but that has not gone well for them in the past..

[ArcticWolfie]

Grid penalties are a given, they will have new units and maybe use both races to stockpile elements.

Surely they won't have to pull another 'strategic penalty' in the next couple races ? They've only just done it at Silverstone.

Pretty sure they are going to take a few penalties at Spa, though... McLaren won't care if they reach Q3 and Honda doesn't care how many penalties they get at Spa, their new engine /must/ perform.

[loner]

Apparently the next update should bring that extra 10-15hp, I'm more interested in the October update though, if it even materializes. Getting the gap under a second this season would be a huge achievement for McLaren and Honda, it would put them in a decent position for next year.

don't underestimate the packaging effect and the integration between PU and chassis as well
there is a good reason why Honda went very compact i assume people will understand and see the benefits next season.

[-wkst-]

They do however need to start gathering reliability data by running high mileage components. If they continue swapping parts at the current rate they will end the season without accruing 5 races on any systems and go into 2018 without a track proven power unit.

Sure they can still do durability work on the dyno but that has not gone well for them in the past..

With 9 races left it is pretty clear that Honda and McLaren would like to complete the season with 2 fresh PU. One new spec in Spa and one new spec maybe in Austin. It's just the question if they have the reliability to do so...

[dren]

Apparently the next update should bring that extra 10-15hp, I'm more interested in the October update though, if it even materializes. Getting the gap under a second this season would be a huge achievement for McLaren and Honda, it would put them in a decent position for next year.

don't underestimate the packaging effect and the integration between PU and chassis as well
there is a good reason why Honda went very compact i assume people will understand and see the benefits next season.

I'm curious how much benefit this year's weight shaving PU design has had on the chassis performance. That can't be overlooked; we tend to focus solely on max power.

[Joseki]

If I remember correctly AMuS stated that the McLaren chassis is the lightest, with a light engine they could be running much more ballast than the others and have a lower CoG. However I don't think that there's much difference anyway and more power is surely worth more weight if the engine's CoG doesn't change too much.

[GoranF1]

https://twitter.com/f1talks/status/895961611818741764 https://twitter.com/f1talks/status/895961861392408576 https://twitter.com/f1talks/status/895962303891480576

[bauc]

So the new HONDA PU will fly, but will it be fast enough

[aran.vtec]

from the original article , translated into English

"Since its entry in 2015, Honda F1 continued bad news but bright information came in for the first time! It may greatly evolve toward the end of the game. Apparently it seems to introduce Honda Jet's technical know-how. As you know, the engine mounted on the Honda jet is designed & developed by Wako of Honda Institute of Technology.

Honda Technical Research Institute's main posting received the sluggishness of Honda F1 "If we come this far, we will use total technology, let's have all the technology we can possibly have thought that jet engine technology can not be diverted?" In general, the internal combustion engine where the piston moves up and down, and the turbine engine are considered to be different things. That is why I have not involved so far.

In other words, it is said that it has been driven to that point. I was surprised to see the information and drawings of the F1 Power Unit to the development team of the jet engine in the background, "Wow?" Although details are unknown, precision management seems to be quite different from jet engine. The jet engine is more precise.

In the aircraft industry all parts are made with precision different from cars. Scrap from the aluminum plate such as the structural member of the main wing. For example, if the main wing is 28 m, it has to be cut off from the aluminum plate of 28 m or more. It is impossible to add it. When I saw the automobile production engineer, I was doing incredible things.

The engine is the same. The accuracy required of the jet engine is said to be more than the F1 engine. When I think about it, "Burner 4" used in B777, etc. There is no vibration at all though the fan with 2m 85 cm also rotates at high speed. Furthermore, it is used in the range from the outside temperature of 50 degrees to minus 60 degrees. And it will not be allowed to break.

By examining the power unit of Honda F1 with the concept of "It is the highest level of automobile technology, it seems that it was far from aircraft level". The timing of when Honda jet technology is used as a power unit at any point is unknown, but the Hungarian test after the Hungarian Grand Prix was awesome.

It is said that it will introduce a power unit called "spec 4" from the Belgian GP at the earliest, but this is definitely introducing the concept of Honda Jet. The vibrations that had plagued since the opening began to decline sharply, and it seems that it has come to be able to produce the power as designed. Have you seen more power up toward the end?

If Speck 4 is introduced to the Belgian Grand Prix to be held on August 27, if you fight well without breaking, you can think that it will get better"

[HPD]

What is the technology of Honda Jet said to have been introduced to Honda F1?

A few days ago, I wrote that Honda F1 will introduce Honda jet technology. Because I wrote Yahoo news for ordinary people, I omit specific contents. Surprisingly those who read the article are unexpectedly many and it seems that a few people want to know a bit more detailed information. I would like to speculate on the current progressive movement.

First of all, although it is jet engine technology, the difference is "reliability". As you know, it is vibration that Honda F1 has been struggling since its opening. When testing with one cylinder did not occur fine vibration Occurred because various parts are broken, we can not produce the output as designed. In the first half of this season I was overwhelmed by measures against vibration.

The cause of vibration varies. The tire is the easiest to understand. It is meaningless to balance with static (static), so turn it and balance it. However, even if it is balanced at about 100 rpm, it always vibrates after 200 turns. How far to pursue him? Of course F1 does not compare such as a commercial car.

It seems that it was sweeter than the jet engine standard. This will exceed the precision of the measuring instruments currently used. You must think about how to balance it. Also toughness to clearance and G greatly influences. The use environment of the aircraft engine is far more tougher than the racing engine.

It jumps from the ground with an outside temperature of plus 35 degrees and is sucked in by minus 50 degrees in 60 seconds after it is fully opened. And if it can not withstand 9G far beyond side G of F1 it will break. A high revolution object becomes 9 times heavier and hangs on the shaft, and gyroscopic effect comes out as well. Liquids to be circulated should not withstand 9G ~ minus 1G.

I think that you can understand that it is "completely different" even by reading only to this point. Actually, if you pass a passenger car engine on an airplane and skip it, it seems that it will be destroyed quickly even if you take countermeasures considerably. That is why there is no passenger car engine based marine engine, no aircraft engines and so on.

When checking the power unit of Honda F1 with the concept of an aircraft, it seems that in many respects it is "it is ugly". While I am uncertain as to what aircraft standards are adopted, I am Hungarian GP "Accuracy Improvement Ver1". After that the Hungarian test is done with "accuracy improvement version Ver 2".

Below is the story of reality. What I was interesting recently in Mr. Hasegawa's comment was that I began saying "I will not change the basic design". And the engine called spec 4 seems to have not changed significantly in terms of structure. Even so, it seems that the vibration is reduced and it can be applied with power. I also feel confident.

It seems to introduce spec 4 from the high-speed two-game series of Belgium and Italy. If you showed a performance quite different from Honda Formula 1 so far, I think that you can expect to go to the final stage of the race. By the way the circuit that we need power up to now is a terrible situation. I was in trouble. If you survive in Q3, it is a real mono.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/byline/kunisaw ... -00074416/

[jz11]

that comparison between the piston and jet engine, and how jet engine is so much more precise is just so far off it is not even funny... or the real meaning got lost in translation, which is doubtful

[gofast182]

that comparison between the piston and jet engine, and how jet engine is so much more precise is just so far off it is not even funny... or the real meaning got lost in translation, which is doubtful

While there could be aerospace principles they applied to the piston engine, don't forget there are other high-RPM rotating parts in the power units. Think of the MGU-H and the bearings for one...

[dren]

that comparison between the piston and jet engine, and how jet engine is so much more precise is just so far off it is not even funny... or the real meaning got lost in translation, which is doubtful

While there could be aerospace principles they applied to the piston engine, don't forget there are other high-RPM rotating parts in the power units. Think of the MGU-H and the bearings for one...

From what I gathered, they might have used some sort of high speed dynamic balancing that might have come from the aero industry. He said that static and low speed balancing weren't cutting it.

[63l8qrrfy6]

that comparison between the piston and jet engine, and how jet engine is so much more precise is just so far off it is not even funny... or the real meaning got lost in translation, which is doubtful

While there could be aerospace principles they applied to the piston engine, don't forget there are other high-RPM rotating parts in the power units. Think of the MGU-H and the bearings for one...

From what I gathered, they might have used some sort of high speed dynamic balancing that might have come from the aero industry. He said that static and low speed balancing weren't cutting it.

My thoughts exactly.

Ideally you would want to balance turbo/mguh at operating speed, I doubt they can achieve that even with the mystery jet engine tech, however the higher they can go the better. They might have implemented better practices too, gas turbine guys are known to go to extremes when it comes to individually balancing parts, indexing and re-balancing the assemblies, etc.

The statement about 'vibration free' jet engine is either poor translation or complete B/S. I suspect same goes for tolerances being tighter than on F1 engines.