Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[mrluke]

But the point is that if you disconnect the MGU-H on a split turbo, the turbine and compressor will no longer turn at the same speed.

Not necessarily.

[ewlhv]

But the point is that if you disconnect the MGU-H on a split turbo, the turbine and compressor will no longer turn at the same speed.

Article 5.1.6 of 2014 F1 Technical Regs (think it's going to be the same for 2015):
"...The shaft must be designed so as to ensure that the shaft assembly, the compressor and the turbine always rotate about a common axis and at the same angular velocity..."

Article 5.2.4
"The MGU-H must be solely mechanically linked to the exhaust turbine of a pressure charging system. This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the exhaust turbine and may be clutched."

I read that as :
- Compressor will always rotate at the same speed as the turbine.
- MGU-H speed doesn't necessarily match the speed of the turbine.

[henry]

But the point is that if you disconnect the MGU-H on a split turbo, the turbine and compressor will no longer turn at the same speed.

Imagine an MGU-H with a hollow shaft with the shaft that connects the turbine to the compressor running through it. A clutch can connect the two shafts. In this case disconnecting the MGU-H does not disconnect the turbine and compressor from each other.

If Mercedes run such a configuration they had the opportunity today to disconnect the useless MGU-H and improve the responsiveness of rosberg's ICE by reducing the inertia of the turbocharger.

[Tommy Cookers]

I'm finding myself thinking .......
that a useless mgu-h is (apart from the obvious) no great liability, even if not declutched
there can be no load from the mgu-h once there is an electrical failure or commanded shutdown
and without that load the exhaust pressure will tend to fall and so the crankshaft power will tend to rise

or ........
how can the mgu-h be so useful for spooling-up but at other times so undesirable that declutching is important ?

[xpensive]

But the point is that if you disconnect the MGU-H on a split turbo, the turbine and compressor will no longer turn at the same speed.

Not necessarily.

It depends where the MHU-H is located, with a split turbo, it would seem logical to place it between turbine and compressor,
why if you disconnect it from the turbine, said turbine and compressor will by necessity spin with different speeds of course,
unless you have some kind of hollow contraption like henry suggests above, but I doubt it-

...
or ........
how can the mgu-h be so useful for spooling-up but at other times so undesirable that declutching is important ?

My home-grown theory is that the regulation-writers had no concept of the split turbo at the time, while the clutch was intended as a safety device if the 100 000+ rpm device would smoke, but with the MHPE-unit, said clutch meant unforeseen advantages.

Somehow they got it approved anyways, though again, that's my conspiracy theory, but I know Richard loves it so I stick to it.

[gruntguru]

The regulators would have anticipated a MGUH location between the turbine and compressor - that is the most logical place. Have any of the teams put it somewhere else?

[xpensive]

The regulators would have anticipated a MGUH location between the turbine and compressor - that is the most logical place. Have any of the teams put it somewhere else?

I admire your faith in the regulators GG.

[wuzak]

The regulators would have anticipated a MGUH location between the turbine and compressor - that is the most logical place. Have any of the teams put it somewhere else?

Ferrari's is between the turbine and compressor, but closely coupled. Renault's is ahead of the compressor inlet.

[Egresi Tamás]

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/536779486193123328

[Egresi Tamás]

https://twitter.com/hlawiczka/status/536786408812589056

[wuzak]

The regulators would have anticipated a MGUH location between the turbine and compressor - that is the most logical place. Have any of the teams put it somewhere else?

I admire your faith in the regulators GG.

The manufacturers wer eheavily involved in forming the regulations. I'm sure Renault and Ferrari also considered it. Last year there were some people in here who though of the Mercedes layout and drew sketches reflecting that.

Magneti Marelli unviels new hardware for new 2014 rules


Auto123.com
R Fagnan,
Monday, September 10, 2012

Italian electronic company Magneti Marelli used the paddock of Autodromo di Monza last weekend to reveal some of their new hardware destined to run the new 1600cm3, V6 turbo engines in 2014.

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/147452 ... inline.jpg
Photo: WRI2
Magneti Marelli engineers started by showing their new ERS system -- an engine boost coming from the recovery of kinetic energy during braking associated with the energy coming from exhaust gases, both aimed at feeding the electrical motor-generators hooked up to the engine shaft).

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/147452 ... inline.jpg
Heat exhaust recovery system (Photo: WRI2)
Then, they unviled their new fuel systems (injectors and pumps for GDI engines with fuel pressure of up to 500 bar) as well as their two-way WI-FI systems for data transmission from vehicle to infrastructure (i.e., exchange of a much larger set of data and of different types of signals between machine and pit).

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/147452 ... inline.jpg
Different KERS components (Photo: WRI2)
In their press release, Magneti Marelli writes that the technology and methods used in developing the KERS system are a source of solutions and technological spin-offs for systems and components aimed at mass-produced hybrid and electric engines (moto-generators, electronic control systems, inverters, battery control, etc.).

After seeing that turbo, this previous configuration discussed here before looks all the more possible.
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 4&start=45

[Egresi Tamás]

1Escape
2 Combustible
3 Entrada aire intercooler
4 ICE
5 Tubería de radiador a intercooler

[xpensive]

...
The manufacturers wer eheavily involved in forming the regulations. I'm sure Renault and Ferrari also considered it. Last year there were some people in here who though of the Mercedes layout and drew sketches reflecting that.
...

Of course wuz, each carrying their own agenda, a camel is a horse designed by committee.

[PlatinumZealot]

1Escape
2 Combustible
3 Entrada aire intercooler
4 ICE
5 Tubería de radiador a intercooler
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3MrusbCAAEr4LX.jpg:large

The enigine is air to air intercooled as well.

[Richard]

Firing through the crankshaft (or not) now has its own space http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =3&t=20794