Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[j.yank]

Looking at the speed trap and maximum speeds in all sectors, are we sure that Alonso didn't run the updated PU after all?

They also changed their downforce levels on Saturday.

Compare Alonso with Vandoorne in the race. I understand that Alonso is superior but such difference cannot be attributed only to his driving skills.

[foxivan]

The season isn't even half way over. Enjoy the battle at the front while it lasts, McLaren's season starts in Silverstone.

maybe, or maybe not, only time will tell. Yet the truth is the season starts in Australia, months ago.

[godlameroso]

Looking at the speed trap and maximum speeds in all sectors, are we sure that Alonso didn't run the updated PU after all?

They also changed their downforce levels on Saturday.

Compare Alonso with Vandoorne in the race. I understand that Alonso is superior but such difference cannot be attributed only to his driving skills.

Their pace in clean air is similar, Alonso just knows how to turn it on right away, Vandoorne has to get into a rhythm which is where the main difference lies. In any case this conversation belongs in the team thread and won't bat an eye if the comments get shuffled over there.

[godlameroso]

The season isn't even half way over. Enjoy the battle at the front while it lasts, McLaren's season starts in Silverstone.

maybe, or maybe not, only time will tell. Yet the truth is the season starts in Australia, months ago.

True it did, it's just that I consider the car and power unit underdeveloped as the season started, both Honda and McLaren are behind. The saying is true, when everything goes according to schedule, nothing can go according to plan.

[Craigy]

Looking at the speed trap and maximum speeds in all sectors, are we sure that Alonso didn't run the updated PU after all?

They also changed their downforce levels on Saturday.

Compare Alonso with Vandoorne in the race. I understand that Alonso is superior but such difference cannot be attributed only to his driving skills.

Yeah, they can. Obviously. Anyone can have a hot weekend, everyone can have a bad weekend.

If you want, compare Stoffel to me. He thrashes me. It doesn't mean it's because my kart is worse and his is better. He's just a better driver, especially when it comes to running on a track I'm new at, he's been to before, and in any case he's been to umpteen new tracks in the past.

Alonso is looking for his first win in the tenth different type of chassis he's won in, in the 17th type of car.
Stoffel is looking for his first win in the second type of chassis he's driven.

On another point, according to the FIA technical reports, both drivers fitted new engines this weekend. I find this odd because the reportage is that only Alonso had the new spec for Friday, and neither of them had it for the race.

I haven't seen all of the weekend stuff yet, did Stoffel have a breakdown?

[ArcticWolfie]

They also changed their downforce levels on Saturday.

Compare Alonso with Vandoorne in the race. I understand that Alonso is superior but such difference cannot be attributed only to his driving skills.

Yeah, they can. Obviously. Anyone can have a hot weekend, everyone can have a bad weekend.

If you want, compare Stoffel to me. He thrashes me. It doesn't mean it's because my kart is worse and his is better. He's just a better driver, especially when it comes to running on a track I'm new at, he's been to before, and in any case he's been to umpteen new tracks in the past.

Alonso is looking for his first win in the tenth different type of chassis he's won in, in the 17th type of car.
Stoffel is looking for his first win in the second type of chassis he's driven.

On another point, according to the FIA technical reports, both drivers fitted new engines this weekend. I find this odd because the reportage is that only Alonso had the new spec for Friday, and neither of them had it for the race.

I haven't seen all of the weekend stuff yet, did Stoffel have a breakdown?

They both got a more reliable engine I believe (spec 2 > spec 2.2?) and Alonso tested with the "spec 3" engine but after the transmission breakdown they swapped it back to the old engine due to suspected overrev damage.

[HPD]

To understand better, as @RolledaNsx says:

The Honda PU used in Alonso's car today (Friday) was spec 2.5(new fuel,turbo,MGU-H,better working injectors and better mapping), not 3.0(new cc design,pre-chamber heads,pistons).

The PU they will be racing with this weekend is spec 2.2(new turbo and MGU-H).

[Craigy]

To understand better, as @RolledaNsx says:

The Honda PU used in Alonso's car today (Friday) was spec 2.5(new fuel,turbo,MGU-H,better working injectors and better mapping), not 3.0(new cc design,pre-chamber heads,pistons).

The PU they will be racing with this weekend is spec 2.2(new turbo and MGU-H).

Thanks HPD. So perhaps they will race the 2.5 at the next round, in Austria on July 9th, for Alonso (and Stoffel if they are able). It's a power track.
Understood.

[fellowhoodlums]

Version 2.5 will race from now on for sure. The final spec is due Sept/Oct but is there an incremental update before then which wasn't brought to Baku?

I know the Baku update wasn't everything because it wasn't ready, just trying to understand if the second part of that update is the Sept/Oct proposed version or is more to come before summer break?

[loner]

ok i feel now the image is getting more clear
this was the plan from day one changing the lay out while reaching higher revv than Mercedes
to have a chance of advantage over them
Hasegawa already said we are throwing every thing for 2018 and hopefully we can use it late in 2017
iam 100% sure that Mclaren know about Honda plan also with the dates so the media tension between the both companies now is just for the media or Mclaren realy can't trust Honda to achieve their target , any way i'll be keeping an eye on the progress in Honda PowerUint in the second half of the season.

[PhillipM]

Higher revs gives you a disadvantage, not an advantage

[etusch]

Higher revs gives you a disadvantage, not an advantage

Just because of fuel and fuel flow restrictions. Because of them high revs not so logical. High revs could give more driveability, higher electric gaining both mgus and maybe this kind of design gives faster reving engine

[Jolle]

Higher revs gives you a disadvantage, not an advantage

Just because of fuel and fuel flow restrictions. Because of them high revs not so logical. High revs could give more driveability, higher electric gaining both mgus and maybe this kind of design gives faster reving engine

You’re applying natural aspirated engine facts to turbo charged PU’s, doesn’t work like that. If there is any correlation between RPM and drivability, its from the compressor and the amount of boost. This is kept high by the H-unit plus with the K-unit, drivability is probability even better and more direct then a high revving V12.

[PhillipM]

Just because of fuel and fuel flow restrictions. Because of them high revs not so logical. High revs could give more driveability, higher electric gaining both mgus and maybe this kind of design gives faster reving engine

No.
It says 'technical' in the name of this site, not 'fantasy-land'

You're in a 600+ page topic on the exact subject.

[ZakB]

To understand better, as @RolledaNsx says:

The Honda PU used in Alonso's car today (Friday) was spec 2.5(new fuel,turbo,MGU-H,better working injectors and better mapping), not 3.0(new cc design,pre-chamber heads,pistons).

The PU they will be racing with this weekend is spec 2.2(new turbo and MGU-H).

Thanks HPD. So perhaps they will race the 2.5 at the next round, in Austria on July 9th, for Alonso (and Stoffel if they are able). It's a power track.
Understood.

They will run it, Hasegawa already confirmed.

"For the next round in Austria, we are scheduled to bring our updated Spec 3 PU for both cars following the successful test here in Azerbaijan. In the meantime, we will continue our development with our best efforts in order to continue closing the gap."