2021 Engine thread

[Twl197860]

Have the FIA get in touch with Polyphony, Turn 10, and other racing sim developers. Broadcast a variety of synthesized engine sounds, informed by the cars' data feeds/ECU signal. Whatever informs the rpm/pedal position visualizations. Allow the viewer to select from their choice of "real racing engine" sound overlays, be that an NA V10, a BRM H16, a Cosworth DFV, a NASCAR V8, a 2 stroke kart engine, or whatever else might be consider the sound of a "real racing car" per FIA focus group studies. The elite afficionado might be tempted by the "galloping hooves" option, available with the 'Purist' package, at a cost of €20 per broadcast. There will of course be a "normal feed" option for the less nostalgic. To attract new viewers, the voices of popular celebrities, performing artists, and particularly melodic drivers, will be recorded singing hit songs and pitch bent in accordance with engine RPM. Furthermore, if dear viewer is concerned that the cars aren't loud enough, at regular intervals during the race a message will be scrolled across the screen stating, "The FIA Viewer Satisfaction Initiative would like to take this moment to ask: Have you considered rotating your volume knob clockwise?" and "Remember: Always wear adequate ear protection when simulating the Real Racing sound. -The FIA SafeSpeakers Initiative." A further development of this technology would include a "Murray Walker" filter for alterning commentators' voices toward the creation of the authentic "real commentator" sound.

I've been a big fan of gran-turismo from the start but nothing would make me even think about getting the next gran-turismo from the first gran-turismo - gt4 the series was getting better then gt5 was like they went backwards the only redemption was the online then gt6 they went and took everything bad about gt5 and amplifyed it so only a handful of cars drive halfway properly then the updates started and the game went to $#|+ !!! But as far as people having to pay to watch a race on TV we already do it's called cable and if they are again talking about making the races ppv forget it they'll lose to many fans and the sponsors will pull out . Just look at NASCAR they signed on with channels only available with higher grade cable subscription and now they can't fill the seats at the tracks and their TV ratings have dropped . Of course this might be due to the fact all winter they were talking about putting more cars on the track and then right before Daytona they said there'll only be 40 cars in the race REALLY less cars on track the races were starting to get boring with all the bs rules anyway now there's less cars #+? IT'S NASCAR NOT F1 KICK THOSE CRY BABIES OUT AND LET REAL DRIVERS IN WHY YOU THINK FERRARI WILL NEVER BE IN NASCAR HELLO I JUST TOLD YOU ( THEY WHINE TO MUCH ) lol speaking of Ferrari look at the endurance races last year only time Ferrari got ahead of Chevy was when Porsche wrecked Chevy which after the 24h LM I stopped watching endurance racing Porsche should've been ban for the season only race they didn't knock out the Corvette was the 24h Daytona . Think I've given everyone a lot to think about . As far as the future of racing I think it will suffer in the coming years before they put it back on standard TV that you can get with just an antenna .

[matt21]

You know all this talk about going to Electric in Formula 1 makes me think about the Koenigsegg 1-1 it has a ice that puts out about 680-700hp coupled directly to a 160hp electric motor/generator going into a torque converter with a clutch behind that then to a 500hp electric motor that's direct drive to the differential no transmission just the combination of a torque converter and a clutch. So why does f1 still use a transmission ?

The One:1 has a 7-speed sequential gear box.

With a gear box you can use the ICE more often at its best rpm for power, torque or efficiency. With the direct drive you are stuck with a linear relation between rpm and vehicle speed.
I would go for a CVT if it would be allowed.
This could then also be road relevant, as there are not many such transmissions available that can handle more power than a scooter is producing AFAIK.

[Cold Fussion]

You know all this talk about going to Electric in Formula 1 makes me think about the Koenigsegg 1-1 it has a ice that puts out about 680-700hp coupled directly to a 160hp electric motor/generator going into a torque converter with a clutch behind that then to a 500hp electric motor that's direct drive to the differential no transmission just the combination of a torque converter and a clutch. So why does f1 still use a transmission ?

The One:1 has a 7-speed sequential gear box.

With a gear box you can use the ICE more often at its best rpm for power, torque or efficiency. With the direct drive you are stuck with a linear relation between rpm and vehicle speed.
I would go for a CVT if it would be allowed.
This could then also be road relevant, as there are not many such transmissions available that can handle more power than a scooter is producing AFAIK.

He was talking about the Regera but he god the specs wrong. The Regera has a 820 kW ICE with a 160 kW electric motor on the crank and a 180 kW electric motor at each wheel. It also has a locking torque convertor so you do have some mechanical advantage at low speeds. Let's not forget the engine in the Regera is similar to the one in the one:1 which is rated at 1000 kW, so it's probably tuned for a flatter power curve.

There is one YASA motor for each rear wheel, providing electric direct drive, and one on the crankshaft that provides torque-fill, electrical generation and starter motor functionality.

The car is often quoted as having 1500 hp, which is somewhat less than the sum of the parts, meaning they are more than likely doing some funkyness to have a flat power curve. Whether this compromise would be faster than a traditional setup is another question entirely.

[AJI]

This thread needs a little love.

Now that the takeover of F1 is complete and Brawn is back, I think all bets are off for the continuation of the V6H. He's never been particularly complimentary towards them. One could say that he's been downright dismissive of them...

I can't see a V10 ever coming back, but a V8 is potentially high on the list now. Surely they have to keep the 120kW MGU-K, but I fear for my beloved MGU-H...

[roon]

People should remember that the V10s were not designed to sound good. That was a happy accident.

Designing regulations with the intent to improve spectacle is not a guarantee that the spectacle will improve. It might, but it might also create something hokey, cheesy, or contrived. Lest we forget DRS or handicapped KERS.

[wuzak]

This thread needs a little love.

Now that the takeover of F1 is complete and Brawn is back, I think all bets are off for the continuation of the V6H. He's never been particularly complimentary towards them. One could say that he's been downright dismissive of them...

I can't see a V10 ever coming back, but a V8 is potentially high on the list now. Surely they have to keep the 120kW MGU-K, but I fear for my beloved MGU-H...

Brawn works for the Commercial Rights Holder, and thus has limited input into regulations.

I doubt too much will change in the engine regulations.

[rjsa]

It will if FIA wish to keep the golden elgs coming.

[FW17]

[roon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4H3FE0Z4QQ
http://evobsession.com/wp-content/uploa ... image9.jpg

"...transportation transformationist..."

"...garbage trucks can save the world..."

Strange way to describe a series hybrid with a gas-turbine generator. Does one really have to speak this way to find investment?

[FW17]

"...transportation transformationist..."

"...garbage trucks can save the world..."

Strange way to describe a series hybrid with a gas-turbine generator. Does one really have to speak this way to find investment?

Its a TED Talk

Interesting idea though. Sounds almost as if it can be made in a garage

[wuzak]

Not a new idea either

http://corporate.walmart.com/_news_/new ... stic-truck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NER9X4_gtYk

[Cold Fussion]

Not a new idea either

http://corporate.walmart.com/_news_/new ... stic-truck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NER9X4_gtYk

The technology itself isn't new but if you were to contrast his ideas for electric vehicles and contrast that with government policy around the world, you could consider his ideas to be radical.

[Tommy Cookers]

.......I would go for a CVT if it would be allowed.
This could then also be road relevant, as there are not many such transmissions available that can handle more power than a scooter is producing AFAIK.

the CVT is inherently bigger and much less efficient than the conventional race gearbox
(speaking as a CVT enthusiast, the performance benefit is primarily to SI economy via super high gearing reducing throttling in cruise)
the scooter CVT has only simple mechanical control, unlike the modern car CVT which has software-implemented control

the F1 engine is fuel-rate capped beyond 10500 rpm, so efficiency isn't ideal throughout the range 10500-12200 dictated by conventional gearboxes
how about having eg a small supplementary (low torque capacity) CVT notionally in parallel with the conventional gearbox output to the CWP/diff ?
its ratio controlled so that eg a continuous range of 0-16% of gearbox output torque converts into 0-16% more gearbox output rpm
and of course being unexposed to 84-100% of the torque that remains the main torque flow
so that the ICE holds 10500 rpm but the car behaves as though the ICE was running at 10500-12200 rpm
(or something similar could be done at the crankshaft output)

and the MGU-K could be integrated with this supplementary CVT in various ways
it could augment or enhance the benefits of the supplementary CVT
or with some capacitive ES could even replace it as a supplementary torque path, 'Prius-style'

[roon]

the F1 engine is fuel-rate capped beyond 10500 rpm, so efficiency isn't ideal throughout the range 10500-12200 dictated by conventional gearboxes
how about having eg a small supplementary (low torque capacity) CVT notionally in parallel with the conventional gearbox output to the CWP/diff ?
its ratio controlled so that eg a continuous range of 0-16% of gearbox output torque converts into 0-16% more gearbox output rpm
and of course being unexposed to 84-100% of the torque that remains the main torque flow
so that the ICE holds 10500 rpm but the car behaves as though the ICE was running at 10500-12200 rpm
(or something similar could be done at the crankshaft output)

and the MGU-K could be integrated with this supplementary CVT in various ways
it could augment or enhance the benefits of the supplementary CVT
or with some capacitive ES could even replace it as a supplementary torque path, 'Prius-style'

I'm reminded of a JATCO Nissan CVT which incorporates an auxilliary 2-speed gearbox.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/07 ... n-cvt.html



I like the idea of the MGUK having its own torque path pre-transmission. Full electric drive through any gear ratio, for pit stops & caution laps. Smooth coupling & decoupling of the ICE.

the CVT is inherently bigger and much less efficient than the conventional race gearbox
(speaking as a CVT enthusiast, the performance benefit is primarily to SI economy via super high gearing reducing throttling in cruise)
the scooter CVT has only simple mechanical control, unlike the modern car CVT which has software-implemented control

Perhaps the Honda DN-01 motorcycle transmission provides some hint at what optimization holds. Purported to be the first commercial civilian transport with hydrostatic drive.

[matt21]

Some time ago, I suggested that the install Epicyclic gears in the wheel hubs in order to adapt the gear ratio from track to track and get the engine to work in its optimum range.
And even the FIA changed some regulations concerning the drivetrain, I still believe this would be possible.