A hydraulic KERS system?

[xpensive]

I have been toying around with the idea of a hydraulic KERS-system, probably way too heavy and clumsy for F1, but anyway.

When hydraulic power is pressure times flow, a 40 MPa (400 Bar or 6000 psi) system would require a flow of 1.5 liters per second to achieve the 60 kW, which means 10 liters for those 6.6 seconds.

This could be built very simple around water-hydraulics for minimum losses, with a pump/motor unit and an accumulator.

However, as pressure falls from 40 MPa to zero when empty the accumulator, twice the flow is needed for 400 kJ, or 20 liters.

[Scania]

hydraulic is very heavy.....
& easy to get problem
the first KERS in F1 designed by newey in 1999 is a hydraulic system.

[Giblet]

I think hydraulics are a good way to transfer energy from unit to unit instead of linkages....

...since I'm on this Turbo Compounding kick (which if you read the same articles i have been reading lately, you would be to!) it would be a good way to get energy from a turbine, or any other source , and pass it to where it needs to be, allowing for more packaging options, and not needing the KERS unit to be located at the crank.

[xpensive]

hydraulic is very heavy.....
& easy to get problem
the first KERS in F1 designed by newey in 1999 is a hydraulic system.

Most interesting Scania, this I did not know. Anyone with more information on Newey's McLaren-system, anything at all?

[Callum]

hydraulic is very heavy.....
& easy to get problem
the first KERS in F1 designed by newey in 1999 is a hydraulic system.

Most interesting Scania, this I did not know. Anyone with more information on Newey's McLaren-system, anything at all?

linky link >> viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6280

[Carlos]

This idea of hydraulic drive system is also an archtypal that evolves and recurs as a fascination on F1Technical forum. Seach the forums with 'hydristor' and expose threads well worth attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydristor

[xpensive]

Thank's guys and sorry for my arrogance not to search the topics before opening a new one

[Callum]

Thank's guys and sorry for my arrogance not to search the topics before opening a new one

I forgive you

[Carlos]

Not at all xpensive. I point out that there's a lot on the forum already , it's worth reading old threads, then the guys you hang with on the forum, can take it to the next level.I've noticed a lot of very technical folk post here the last year or so. One's that don't just talk about the ideas but can also flesh it out with numbers... engineering type additions. Stuff like that - yeah, engineering analysis.

[xpensive]

Still very little information on the McLaren KERS system however, for natural reasons, details were never published I guess.
But probably not very different, though surely far more advanced, than my idea described above.

The "hydristor", as far as I can understand, it's a mechanically innovative variable displacement pump/motor, correct?

When working a bit with hydraulics, I believe such properties can be achieved in diffent ways with modern components.

[Touring23]

It seems to me that perhaps a pneumatic system would have some advantages?

[mike]

i can see its benefits on weight, but then you have to find a place in the car to fit a volume of 10 litres somewhere.

my idea is to use 2 hydristors as a CVT system to charge up a flywheel. which will need the hydristor systems to go overdrive as well as underdrive. it can be achieve via valving systems and it will for sure allow low/horizontal mounting of the flywheel.

difficult thing about F1 KERS is that it basically means that you have to store the energy for 50% of the lap, where as normal KERS storage of energy wouldn't have been such an issue

[xpensive]

The other thing I come across as problematic, is the rate of charging/discharging, 60 kW (80 Hp) is almost what a street-car has as maximum power.

How many Hp can the Toyota Prius-system provide at discharge?

[mike]

30KW
33KW
50KW
60KW for the newest 1

[Carlos]

yeah xpensive - It's a kind of pump/mptor/transmision:
Ciro introduced the subject prompting the inventor to join the forum and talk about the hydristor at length. I researched a link to Racecar Engineering that had a 2 page article on a hydrostatic FSAE design study. Diagrams,references, links, the inventor stops in to write 1000+ word on the device. Thats a good read.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3577&hilit=hydristor

Racecar Engineering Hydrostatic FSAE Study - 2 pages
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/arti ... racer.html


Mike - you mean using a flywheel (15kg?) to avoid using a large volume, heavy, high pressure accumulator tank?

Maybe our Moderator; Ciro could facilitate this added discussion by combining the treads. I'll send him a PM