Formula E

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
henra
henra
53
Joined: 11 Mar 2012, 19:34

Re: Formula E

Post

Andres125sx wrote: 500kg for a 100KWh battery is way way too optimistic.
I don't think so.

In R/C modelism the cells with the highest Wh currently have average discharge Voltage ~3,6V at 5C and ~ 7,3Ah, while weighing <140g per cell.
That gives you ~94kWh for a 500kg Battery.
These cells are small cells so you will have >3500 of them, each having shrink wrap and connectors. Therefore, with bigger cells you should probably be able to gain these final 6kg. The tech is definitely there to create a 5C, 500kg, 100kWh LiPo as of today..

User avatar
andylaurence
123
Joined: 19 Jul 2011, 15:35

Re: Formula E

Post

Andres125sx wrote:BTW, what´s BMS?
Battery Management System - essentially it balances the pack to ensure one cell doesn't drop too low or get over-charged. In single-use situations like R/C cars/planes where there's a small number of cells, it's less important, but when you've got a few hundred/thousand and they're being re-charged under braking, it becomes more of an issue as they go further out of balance with each charge/discharge cycle. In a sprint, I could probably get away with no BMS as I only touch the brakes half a dozen times. In a one hour race, that will be a different story.

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

Post

So you guys are proving me right

You can´t count just the cells, the battery does include the box, the cooling system and the BMS, so you can´t talk about battery weight when you´re only considering the weight of the cells



Anycase, if FE battery does weight 200kg for 53kWh, why do you think there´re better options?

Do you think FE will not use the latest and best possible batteries?

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

Post

andylaurence wrote: In a sprint, I could probably get away with no BMS as I only touch the brakes half a dozen times. In a one hour race, that will be a different story.
More info needed, where´re you racing :)

User avatar
andylaurence
123
Joined: 19 Jul 2011, 15:35

Re: Formula E

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
andylaurence wrote: In a sprint, I could probably get away with no BMS as I only touch the brakes half a dozen times. In a one hour race, that will be a different story.
More info needed, where´re you racing :)
The link for my blog is in my signature. I'm sprinting on circuits in the UK. Some are just a few hundred yards, like Crystal Palace (the onboard video here is mine), whilst Castle Combe is 1.75 laps, totalling 3 miles.

autogyro
autogyro
53
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 15:03

Re: Formula E

Post

You thinking of going electric Andy?

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

Post

Hybrid then?

Can you talk about your configuration, or it´s top secret?

User avatar
andylaurence
123
Joined: 19 Jul 2011, 15:35

Re: Formula E

Post

Andres125sx wrote:Hybrid then?

Can you talk about your configuration, or it´s top secret?
I've been sorely tempted by going hybrid. I've got a pretty good design knocked up and it fits in neatly with the class structures (by engine capacity, nothing more). Sadly, I don't think I have the time. If anyone is in this part of the world and wants to get involved, then let me know. I might change my mind. Essentially, it's all about getting the best specific power motor I can find, hooking it to the crankshaft and getting the best battery strategy possible. I can use a lighter pack if used sparingly, either only on the first half of straights or only on timed runs in the afternoon, for example. Balance charging at home reduces the need for a weighty BMS.

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

Post

I´d love to get involved, but even when I´m in this part of the world it´s not close enough I´f afraid... :cry:

User avatar
Sebp
15
Joined: 09 Mar 2010, 22:52
Location: Surrounded

Re: Formula E

Post

Four more drivers announced:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/autosport-ne ... la-e-pool/

This is shaping out to become an F1-Rejects series. :mrgreen:
Albeit for the better imo.
No smartphone was involved in creating this message.

mantaque
mantaque
15
Joined: 14 Mar 2014, 20:56

Re: Formula E

Post

Personally I think this series is going to fall fast. Just look at Formula 1 fan rage about lack of cars proper noise. Of course, tracks, cars, drivers - all this package looks interesting, but we haven't seen it in action yet. I'm not a fan of these machines, not beacuse they are electric, but I can't see going fast silently to be fascinating thing to look at for more than 2 minutes.

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Formula E

Post

who said they will be silent?

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/92 ... p-F1-sound

Personally i think the series will take off

User avatar
Sebp
15
Joined: 09 Mar 2010, 22:52
Location: Surrounded

Re: Formula E

Post

Very Sci-Fi, I like it... :D

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IptBVdys-mo#t=14[/youtube]
No smartphone was involved in creating this message.

Sombrero
Sombrero
126
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 20:18

Re: Formula E

Post

We are the Formula E, you will be assimilated...

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

Post

mantaque wrote:Personally I think this series is going to fall fast. Just look at Formula 1 fan rage about lack of cars proper noise. Of course, tracks, cars, drivers - all this package looks interesting, but we haven't seen it in action yet. I'm not a fan of these machines, not beacuse they are electric, but I can't see going fast silently to be fascinating thing to look at for more than 2 minutes.
Then not only FE is not for you, probably racing isn´t either

I´ve seen tons of racing categories, MotoGP, Moto2, Moto3 (that IS an ugly noise), WRC, DTM, F1, GP2, GP3, WTCC, World Series, Superleague Formula, karting.... Some have beautiful noises, and some are even disgusting, but racing has never been about sound, but about competition, overtaking, rivality...


To me critizicing the sound of a competition is like criticizing the box where the 9th symphony comes stored, absurd. We all would prefer a solid and beautiful box, but that´s not the important part, if you stop buying the 9th symphony because the box didn´t like you, then you have a problem IMHO


Problems is we humans are really reluctant to any change, we´re used to loud engines, we actually are used to make the relation more noise -> faster car and we´re used to this relation because it has been true for any car since the first one more than a century ago. Now a car can be fast and quiet, but we´re not used to that, and many people is not prepared for that change

Sound is just one of the drawbacks of IC engines, yes I said drawback. It´s only that relationship between louder noise -> faster car what made it cool at some point, but it´s just something we got used to, not the important part.

Once people get used to a quiet formula, we all will ask ourselves how could we enjoy a noise that makes impossible any comunication, that makes you go out of the track with headache, that does not let you hear any interesting noise, just an engine going up and down the rpm margin always the same, without any difference, always the same, more monotonous is imposible...

At FE we will be able to talk each other, nobody will leave the track with headache, nobody who want to assist the races frequently will loose hearing sensivity, we will be able to differ different driving styles just with the sound of the tires... FE sound will be more interesting, actually FE sound will be first interesting noise we´ve ever hear on a competition, v12 and v10 sound was cool, but told us nothing about drivers, driving styles or any other parameter, it was just a cool noise, but too strident, too monotonous and provide no information at all :wink: