Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

Poleman

I agree its disappointing, and to be fair I think Schumacher fans have had to get used to this dose of reality. But as I said, Schumacher has no confidence at the limit and this is affecting him, not old age or that he has "lost it".

Nice Sauber Mercedes BTW, C11?

[Poleman]

Almost!!! Sauber Mercedes C291!C11's succesor one year later I love that piece of art!

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

We should start a thread on that!

Is it the 3.5 litre V12? The C11 was turbo V8 right?

[Poleman]

Exactly nothing more to add! M-291 3.5L Flat-12

[marcush.]

ah the engine you needed to take out of the car to check the sparkplugs.. twin spark if i remember correctly..fortunatelly Illmor was developping the F1 powerplant...

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

Wow that really does look like a technical masterpiece!

Can someone start up a C291 thread? or a Saube Mercedes thread????

[marcush.]

found this:
http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/engineC292b.jpg

and this:

http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/C291b.jpg

would be better fit into the ferrari f10 thread...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush

Thanks for the blueprints on the flat12. Man that does look like some far out engine.
I read on some blogs they wanted a high revving unit for C291 and aborted C292.
Does anyone have some hard facts on this beast?
I read it was underpowered initially and also consumed vast quantities of fuel, but later on in 1991 season it came good and won a race.

[marcush.]

Marcush

Thanks for the blueprints on the flat12. Man that does look like some far out engine.
I read on some blogs they wanted a high revving unit for C291 and aborted C292.
Does anyone have some hard facts on this beast?
I read it was underpowered initially and also consumed vast quantities of fuel, but later on in 1991 season it came good and won a race.

my understanding is ,Mercedes had casting troubles with the
engine Block which prevented them from exploiting the potential during the season..
they selected the best blocks and raised the Hp from something like 560 to 640 towards the end of the year.
After the season ,they had solved their issues and raised Hp to 680 ,but then the project was stopped.The C292 was never raced..if i know correctly the two cars are with Peter Sauber.

a friend of mine worked in the engine testing bays in Stuttgart back then on 1 cylinder development engines..

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

Wikipedia has it that 1 C292 is in existance at the Sauber Museum.

It does not have an engine though as Mercedes never got as far as fitting. I see they managed to extract 120bhp more than when they started, Just a shame Mercedes canned the project

I did however manage to get the note of this fabled flat 12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teFADi-EjYo

Its sounds just as you would expect! MAGIFICENT

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

Im looking to get as much info on this car as is possible.
Apologies to the Mercedes W01 thread for clogging it up with this

Here is a little taster of what I remember as a kid. Towards the end you can hear the flat 12 at full chat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teFADi-EjYo

[Carbon]

Very nice, always loved that car. Amazing how slow the shifts are and the low rpm the hear changes occur. Lovely.

If you're into model making, Tamiya make a gorgeous 1/24 scale model of the C291.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Hmmmm I did the occasional airfix model as a kid with mixed results however...

I wouldnt mind a silver C291 on my desk now that you mentioned it! Damn shame I cant replicate that noise

[wesley123]

from what i know about it is that it was an pretty unreliable car, also it was pretty much down on power. In the nurburgring there came an engine update increasing the power by 70hp though it was still unreliable as hell. After the 91 season sauber and mercedes decided to pull out and focus on formula1

[marcush.]

as far as i know ,the project was a bit overcomplicated and overweight as well.lets not forget that saubers turbocars were the class of the field but the Na saubers really struggled to produce results.
Of course this had a lot to do with downforce and the apearance of the famous TWR xjr14...