New Suspension For Formula1 - This may change the race?

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Post Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:44 pm

I think the leaning aspect is a whole different can of worms. It would be interesting to see how much it would help or hinder aerodynamics. Sure, the floor and wings are no longer parallel to the ground, but one side would benefit from lower ground clearance. If this doesn't totally destroy aero performance on the high side, you'd possibly get more ground effect w/ the center of lift shifted slightly inward, adding more weight to the inside wheels in addition to shifting CoG slightly (by leaning).


Regarding tire wear (and ignoring leaning as an option): would positive camber on the inside wheel really help that much? It would still be unloaded w/ a smaller contact patch and same opportunity for flat spotting.

Image
Formula None
 
Joined: 17 Nov 2010

Post Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:24 pm

I want to get opinions are not based on existing theory for the suspension of the existing Formula 1 cars.
Last edited by DIM-ON on Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
DIM-ON
 
Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Location: Ukraine

Post Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:34 pm

I'm having a really hard time understanding what you're trying to convey.

You're also making some really gross generalizations and hand-waving descriptions of tire footprint behavior.

In any event, sure.. an active suspension would certainly be tremendously advantageous. That's why they were banned.
Grip is a four letter word.

2 is the new #1.
Jersey Tom
 
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: Huntersville, NC

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:03 am

Is your goal to maintain the proper camber for the inside wheels in a turn?

Brian
hardingfv32
 
Joined: 3 Apr 2011

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:33 am

First pic is awfully wrong since it has got a force vector pointing outwards of the curve.

Second pic, total lateral weight transfer won't be changed with the suspension, just by altering the cog, track width, or moving from the earth(changing gravity), what you can change is how much of that weight is trnasfered at the front/rear. And there's a moment in the opposite direction :s.


The last picture is not a car rolling inwards, but a car that has oversteered that's why the wheels are pointing opposite of the corner.


If you want to change camber when you steer, it's already done. If you want to tilt the car inwards, roll it inwards, you'd have to change your rollcenter of whatever kind of suspension you have and put it higher than the CoG.


I think this became a bit confusing.

Why don't you tell us WHAT your system is supposed to do. Then you can tell us HOW is it going to do it(if you're allowed, of course).


After that we can all discuss if it'd be better or not to have it.
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Caito
 
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Location: Argentina

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:05 am

Pic 1: The bmw
Pic 2: the same bmw with other arrows

Last pic: the mercedes oversteering.

CoG= Center of Gravity.
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Caito
 
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Location: Argentina

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:48 am

Haha DIM-ON I'm no suspension expert of any sort. Rather I am just guessing you are using a translator for all your posts? Surely a lot has been lost in translation since your first post. Either you get a friend with reasonable English to translate the stuff for you or it will be really hard for this discussion to proceed.
nipo
 
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Location: Hong Kong

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:10 am

http://www.km77.com/tecnica/bastidor/ba ... med/05.jpg


That picture is wrong, the car is turning to the right(left as seen from the pic) and it has the lateral force pointing the wrong way.



Is any other forum member from Ukraine? Maybe if you write in ukranian other user can transalte your text so we can communicate better.


Steering the wheel in any daily car, formula 1 car, all racing cars I know, produces camber change in the wheels.
Last edited by Caito on Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
Come back 747, we miss you!!
Caito
 
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Location: Argentina

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:36 am

Posted the link at the beginning, this one:

Image
Come back 747, we miss you!!
Caito
 
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Location: Argentina

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:43 am

Існує не відцентрової сили. Доцентрова сила є єдиною, яка існує.
Ciro
Ciro Pabón
 
Joined: 10 May 2005

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:47 am

Дякую ciro за вашу допомогу
Come back 747, we miss you!!
Caito
 
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Location: Argentina

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:56 am

To avoid language barriers at maximum:

Just tell me what is suposed to do your system with the car when a driver enters a corner.


Avoid all the contact patch and camber explanations.
Come back 747, we miss you!!
Caito
 
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Location: Argentina

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:23 am

For the Formula 1 car in the suspension there is a special mechanism (you can see it mechanism a bit on the first page of the first photo)- to create a force. Force is transmitted to the lower lever (Double wishbones) outer wheel (for front - over / back on - at least). F1 Car Body repelled from the outer wheel during cornering. On the inner wheels - suspension pressed down. F1 car body has in turn forced ROLL. Center Mass moves inside of the turn, but after a little period of time begins to move in the opposite direction. Tends to the outside of the turn. During this time, make turns without the negative effects of gravity. Center Mass moves inside of the turn, but after a little period of time begins to move in the opposite direction. Tends to the outside of the turn. During this time, make turns without the negative effects of gravity. This gap is so small on time - it requires a special configuration of the system - to advance.
Last edited by DIM-ON on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DIM-ON
 
Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Location: Ukraine

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:33 am

The idea - in turn for a short period of time, disable the effect of gravity. CM moves to the top of the rotation and then back again. To this should be a little time. And this is enough to perform the rotation is better than now exists.

Having run this effect (disable the effect of gravity) is not necessary to fulfill the previous conditions ensuring NEGATIVE CAMBER (-5 degrees) to the front wheels (-2 degrees) on the rear wheels. The existing theory of car suspension - for is not valid.
DIM-ON
 
Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Location: Ukraine

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:57 am

Are you talking about the center of mass of the whole car, or the wheel?
Come back 747, we miss you!!
Caito
 
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Location: Argentina

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