Red Bull Rake 2012 without EBD

[dren]

I read somewhere that Red Bull is potentially looking at some vortex generators to create a liquid skirt to replace the EBD next year. Is this possible/plausible?

[raymondu999]

a liquid, or a fluid skirt?

[dren]

Haha....yeah... you know what I meant. Fluid...can't believe I did that. I'm going to blame the coffee. I also got verticle and horizontal mixed up regarding some structural steel here at work. So sad...

[Sonic59]

I read somewhere that Red Bull is potentially looking at some vortex generators to create a liquid skirt to replace the EBD next year. Is this possible/plausible?

Sorry, I'm not native english speaker. What is EBD?

[raymondu999]

The Exhaust Blown Diffuser. Basically the way they have positioned the exhaust this year to help the diffuser

[Sonic59]

Ok, thanks. My opinion is that using fortex will be effective too, but maybe a bit more drag because vortex is more turbulent.

[raymondu999]

Sonic, maybe you could draw diagrams for us to see your idea?

[Sonic59]

Sonic, maybe you could draw diagrams for us to see your idea?

My idea is based on fact that turbulent air has more friction. Dont need diagramm to illustrate it, it comes from Newton friction coefficient equation.

[shelly]

I read somewhere that Red Bull is potentially looking at some vortex generators to create a liquid skirt to replace the EBD next year. Is this possible/plausible?

They were already ahead of opposition in this zone in 2009, before EBD.
Look at pictures of the rear of the rb5 with smalla arches on the diffuser footplates.

Iirc, SLC posted that the way they controlled squish vortices form the rear wheels was more efficient that others' since 2009.

Without EBD they will need some other supply of kinetic energy to emphasize footplate vortices. They could use:
-small strakes on the top floor surface
-clever shaped slots in the flat floor, through which air spills form top to bottom
-rad outlet channeling, similar to what r31 has

These are the most obvious ways one could try to see if there is some potential in one of it; I think that teams wil find something more creative, like ad hoc snorkels that collect fast free air and flow it in sensitive floor zones, or the holy grail chapman and murray, radiators giving thrust like in the de havilland mosquito

[ringo]

Where is SLC anyway?

Vortex generators can't be as effective as exhuast energy. As they are of low energy, and just shift that low energy to a region of lower energy. It also depends on drag to aleviate which ever area you are trying to add that energy.

Redbull will use the exhuast energy some way some how next year.
Can someone post the regulations on the diffuser and the exhuast please?

[raymondu999]

I don't think they've been published yet; though Sam Michael said that aside from the mandated periscoping of the exhausts, the last 110mm or some such measure has to be at a certain diameter/angle/direction.

[dren]

Where is SLC anyway?

Vortex generators can't be as effective as exhuast energy. As they are of low energy, and just shift that low energy to a region of lower energy. It also depends on drag to aleviate which ever area you are trying to add that energy.

Redbull will use the exhuast energy some way some how next year.
Can someone post the regulations on the diffuser and the exhuast please?

Certainly not as high energy as exhaust, but can they still be of some use? Surely Red Bull is looking at some way to retain their high rake.

[ringo]

Their secret is not the diffuser or the rake. It's the body.
The body is able to exihibit maximum aerodynamic performance at different pitch angles.
The rake does increase dowforce though. But it's not good for centralizing the downforce. Too much rake is also bad.

I may do a bar555 or scarbs like analysis of the redbull cars at the end of the season. Redbull may have to compensate me to keep the secrets.
But there is alot going for them outside of the EBD.

The nozzle exhuast was revealed, the rake was revealed, the high nose, the long gearbox. They use a lot of tricks, but all can be seen with the naked eye if you look hard enough.

[raymondu999]

With all due respect Ringo, this thread is asking about creating a fluidic skirt to maintain a high level of rake next year; rather than what causes the RBR to be fast

[donskar]

Their secret is not the diffuser or the rake. It's the body.
The body is able to exihibit maximum aerodynamic performance at different pitch angles.
The rake does increase dowforce though. But it's not good for centralizing the downforce. Too much rake is also bad.

I may do a bar555 or scarbs like analysis of the redbull cars at the end of the season. Redbull may have to compensate me to keep the secrets.
But there is alot going for them outside of the EBD.

The nozzle exhuast was revealed, the rake was revealed, the high nose, the long gearbox. They use a lot of tricks, but all can be seen with the naked eye if you look hard enough.

Ringo, I'd love to see this. Hope you can find the time.