What's the next carbon tub step change?

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tok-tokkie
tok-tokkie
36
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 16:21
Location: Cape Town

Re: What's the next carbon tub step change?

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The commercial research facility I have access to has a customer developing nano fibres. It is proprietory work so I don't know much about it but it has made me aware that nano tech is a fast developing field and it offers really significant improvements to the properties of the item being developed. They will be able to tailor the material to better suit each application.

SidSidney
SidSidney
18
Joined: 30 Jan 2014, 01:34
Location: Racetracks around the world

Re: What's the next carbon tub step change?

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riff_raff wrote:I think we'll see more use of stitched and woven 3D textile preforms that use resin infusion.
I had heard of isogrids and orthogrids before, but never seen them produced like this:-

http://youtu.be/D1wQDdxbXn0

There is so much innovation in production techniques and speed going on, it is almost like we are on the edge of a new industrial revolution. Just a few weeks ago I was able to 3D prototype, machine prototype in aluminium, build machine tools, test cast and order 1400 sets of a magnesium-manganese-beryllium pressure die-casting basically from the house Mac. That wasn't easily possible 10-15 years ago.
This signature is encrypted to avoid complaints, but it makes me laugh out loud:-
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Edax
Edax
47
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 22:47

Re: What's the next carbon tub step change?

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SidSidney wrote:
riff_raff wrote:I think we'll see more use of stitched and woven 3D textile preforms that use resin infusion.
I had heard of isogrids and orthogrids before, but never seen them produced like this:-

http://youtu.be/D1wQDdxbXn0
then you should take a look at this, by far the coolest way to shape an isogrid.
http://www.3dmetalforming.com/products/ ... rid-panel/
The explosive forming process
Explosive forming is the forming of sheet metal using explosive materials. In general, a metal sheet is placed on a die. The die cavity is vacuumed and the assembly is placed in water. An explosive charge is detonated under water pushing the sheet in the die in about 2 millisecond

Edax
Edax
47
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 22:47

Re: What's the next carbon tub step change?

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Lycoming wrote: Then again, I've seen topology optimization results for a tub that had criss-crossing uni tapes all over it, something like a spaceframe on the inside skin of the tub, but you don't need 3D printing for that. The advantage there would be primarily be, I'm guessing, if your torsional stiffness requirement greatly exceeds your side impact requirement.
The problem with the tub is that it on the outside is constrained by aerodynamics, the inside by a human, so you don't have much freedom to begin with.

Then you have the requirement that it has to be impenetrable for for instance pieces of suspension. That means that the walls of the tub have to be closed and thick.

That means the topology optimization can only play around with placing some stringers here and there, which don't do too much except mitigating shear type deformations.

As I said that topology optimization would probably draw the same box an engineer would.
Topology optimization, at least in the results I've seen, tend to produce truss-like structures. Note that I say this without a real understanding of how the algorithm actually works; it's just an observation based on a handful of results.
One of our modellers described it to me once as doing an FEM calculation and then throwing away the non-stressed material. Learned since that it is slightly more complicated but not by that much.

What I do see is that the human input on the model is still quite large both in placing the constraints and in post processing.

The fact that the final designs end up being quite familiar structures like webbing, trusses, diamond structures etc is more a result of the human input than that they are really the most effective.

g-force_addict
g-force_addict
0
Joined: 18 May 2011, 00:56

Re: What's the next carbon tub step change?

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SidSidney wrote:Just like aluminium monocoques before them, carbon tubs revolutionzed stiffness and safety when they arrived in the McLaren MP4/1.

What's next in chassis design?

Is there something esoteric in aerospace development that could make carbon fiber composite look old, tired and sloppy?
IMO carbon nanotubes or graphene reinforced plastic.
Regulations may mandate some textile fibers like Kevlar to be embedded in to prevent shattering.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
591
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: What's the next carbon tub step change?

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I think the regulations will be tightened up to prevent a lot of these new developments being used - on the grounds of cost. Current carbon fibre is a mature technology that does an excellent job at a reasonable cost (so far as racing cars are concerned, anyway). We've seen this approach taken with engines etc. and I think we can assume it will happen with chassis material too.
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