F1 chassis thickness

[mx_tifoso]

hello
Does anyone know the thickness of a f1 the chassi and how it changes throught the lonitudinal axe of the car?
I mean the tickess of the carbon fiber honeycomb.
Does anyone have pictures of a cross section of a chassi in which is clearly visible the aluminium core and the kevlar layer?

sorry for my english

thanks

[marcush.]

to get some impression (borrowed from 747h..) not F1 of course.

[riff_raff]

Italy88,

The purpose of the composite laminate's core material, whether foam, Nomex honeycomb, or aluminum honeycomb, is to separate and stabilize in shear the composite inner/outer skins and thus increase the buckling margin of the structure and its bending and torsional properties.

Nomex honeycomb has the benefit of a CTE that closely matches the graphite composite, so there is no thermal strain produced during an elevated temperature cure cycle of the composite. Aluminum honeycomb has a thermal mismatch with the carbon fiber composite, but the aluminum honeycomb also performs much better in a crash condition due to its high elongation rate.

The optimum thickness of the core material varies throughout the chassis structure, depending upon the local stress conditions.

Regards,
riff_raff

[marcush.]

so in other words:
The main advantage for sandwiching "formed/shaped cores" between carbonfibre skins is:
You can optimise skin characteristics /plies/ply orientations as well as core thickness according to local loads/stress...If you have the ability to calculate
or simulate all the real stress/loads.
If you are are just guessing or duplicating others work it is very unlikely something useful will come out...let alone one has to consider sandwich consrtruction techniques open a lot of possibilities for manufacturing faults...so in production you need proper processes installed.A ready made sandwich panel bought in has of course charcateristics to a specification...but then of course it is just a flat panel..

[strad]

""""Does anyone know the thickness of a f1 the chassis""""
Depends on how long it takes them to incorporate Graphene

[Jersey Tom]

It's as thick as it needs to be.

[xpensive]

It's as thick as it needs to be.

I wonder if that statement was supposed to be funny, or if you simply don't have a clue? I have been pondering the same thing myself actually, how thick do you have to make the honeycomb and fiber-mat for stiffness as well as strength, anyone?

[marcush.]

It's as thick as it needs to be.

I wonder if that statement was supposed to be funny, or if you simply don't have a clue? I have been pondering the same thing myself actually, how thick do you have to make the honeycomb and fiber-mat for stiffness as well as strength, anyone?

as far as i know a lot of skin thickness and material spec is not for normal loadcases but to meet crash requirements.The question would be here if teams tend to decrease core section to take advantage of this increased skin properties? with their obvious knowledge in laminate orientation I wonder how far teams like RedBull go with their tubs to get controlled flex in areas where you want it or where you don´t need stiffness.

[Italy88]

thanks!!!

I know that thickness of core (and skins) depends on the load and crash condition. But I'm looking for an average idea of it to understand the real andvantages of the
carbon honeycomb.

The only information I managed to find is that Renault pdf in wich it is said that thickness ranges from 51 mm to lower uncored skins.

http://www.doxtop.com/browse/279d4d92/formula-1-design-to-track-speed.aspx

I hope it can be usefull to our topic

Refering to my question about the kevlat layer, I have noticed that in the last two big front crash (kubica and kovalainen) the chassi ''deformation'' stopped at the same point (I think 10 cm behind driver's feet)..It may be caused by the resistence offered by this insert?

[img]McLaren_Hamilton_2008_Spanish_GP[/img]

thanks

[marcush.]

you may take a look into this paper i think this is as much as you might get of inside information:

http://www.speautomotive.com/SPEA_CD/SP ... f/k/K3.pdf

[Just_a_fan]

It's as thick as it needs to be.

I wonder if that statement was supposed to be funny, or if you simply don't have a clue? I have been pondering the same thing myself actually, how thick do you have to make the honeycomb and fiber-mat for stiffness as well as strength, anyone?

JT's answer is correct, if a little pithy. You ask how thick it needs to be for stiffness and strength - how stiff and how strong do you want it? That defines how thick it needs to be. Thus it's as thick as it needs to be for stiffness/strength required.

[Italy88]

thank you

very interesting article. In fact I ask those questions because it is impossible to know how much stiff has to be a point of a chassi, unless a computer simulation.
But by knowing thickness and dimensions of f1 tube you can approximately value its strenght.

Unfortunatly find information about it is very difficult, as for the crash test, except the nose and side crash there are no information on images about the other test such as the front test with aluminium plate, or roll bar(s) test..

greetings

[xpensive]

It's as thick as it needs to be.

I wonder if that statement was supposed to be funny, or if you simply don't have a clue? I have been pondering the same thing myself actually, how thick do you have to make the honeycomb and fiber-mat for stiffness as well as strength, anyone?

JT's answer is correct, if a little pithy. You ask how thick it needs to be for stiffness and strength - how stiff and how strong do you want it? That defines how thick it needs to be. Thus it's as thick as it needs to be for stiffness/strength required.

Not at all JAF, the original poster's question was obviously what the typical thickness of the carbon-fibre honeycomb of a
modern F1 car is, why a reply like the above comes across as both arrogant and stupid in my opinion.

[marcush.]

I´d think the question is a lot more complicated as it seems on first sight.for sure you will have to dimension your total thickness of skin and core according your faith into your processes as well as you do not really know just how many voids and not so perfect laminations you might produce....and how many cycles of strain you might need to put in the structure so lifing of the thing might be another consideration ,also depending on team recources....Wirth trying to sell of used equipment to third parties ...you might have a different idea of how many hours of service life you need to get out of the structure....

[Jersey Tom]

Ohh get over yourselves. Don't be all worked up over a one liner.

I just think it's an odd question to ask. Who says there's even a typical thickness? What does that even mean? What's the value in the answer? We could ask the question, "What's the typical speed of a F1 car?" and it would be tough to answer too.

Even if the thickness was literally a constant value (which I doubt), at 50mm, that doesn't tell you anything. What's the weight of the plies? Total ply thickness? Core thickness? Core material? Add on top of that.. I'm sure the facesheet-to-facesheet thickness does vary noticeably in the structure.

So without knowing specifically what this information is needed for, it's tough to give a good answer.