Adjustable Rear Wing (DRS)

[ringo]

This thread is about the implications of the adjustable rear wing.
We can look in detail on the effect of the design of the car in regards to aerodynamic balance both instantly and over the race distance as the fuel burns off.

The effect on the racing can also be evaluated here. I am hearing that the cars may deploy the adjustable wing if they are following another car by at most 1 second. It would be interesting to look at the loopholes of this ruling, and also what it means for a slower car passing a faster car and vice versa.

[Tomba]

One concern i have with the deployment, is in the event a slower car overtakes a faster car in one of the laps of the race.
Say it's .3s a lap slower than the faster car. He's within the 1s gap and overtakes.
However once this car overtakes he's only 0.2s ahead of the faster car.
Keep in mind he's still 3 tenths slower per lap.
He completes the lap and the on the very same straight he overtook previously, the very same car is behind but is even closer, maybe 0.1s; clawing back the 0.2s deficit.
The faster car definitely will overtake the slower one, and basically we will have a pattern forming.
There will be a number of consecutive overtakes for every lap until one of the overtaking cars has a 1 second lead after overtaking. The smaller the difference in pace between the cars, the increased number of laps required to terminate the string of overtakes.

What this also implies is that the faster car will always win out, so long as the number of laps left in the race ensures that he is leading before the race is up.

[Formula None]

I still don't understand how it will function. AFAIK the main plane is static, and the flap adjustable. If so will the flap pivot to a more vertical position to create stall?. Or move closer to horizontal? The latter might also cause stall...

What I'm getting at is that since the main plane is static, a fully flattened low drag shap will not be achievable. So in my mind it seems like they are meaning to create a stall like the f-ducts did this year.

Also, any word on how many degrees the flap will be allowed to pivot?

The pivot point of the flap is also important. If it's at the front of the profile, the above would be an issue in my mind. If it's at the middle or rear of the flap profile, the gap between flap and main plane would be variable. A flap pivoting up to horizontal would increase the gap, pivoting down towards vertical would ultimately seal the gap with the main plane.

[747heavy]

I´m not 100% sure if I have it correct,
but as far as I understood it, the flap will be able to pivot around a point near
the trailing edge.
They will move the front (leading edge) of the flap upwards, this will flatten the
flap into a more horizontal position, and open up the slot gap, between the flap and
the main plane, allowing more air to pass through the slot.
In an interview In Racecar Engineering, there was talk about a 10° change in flap angle.
In a way, it´s a bit similar to the F-duct, but more efficient - IMHO
By doing it this way, it will fall back/ be pushed back by the pressure on the flap into the max. downforce position if the adjuster fails, thereby creating a sort of failsafe mode.

[Formula None]

That sounds likely, 747.

I had high hopes for the adjustable rw concept at first. Unfortunately, what we're getting is a very lame pseudo adjustable FIA lawyer-spec plank with a hinge. Lots of green cred there, dragging a stalled wing through the air at 200 mph. Fits right in with a race schedule that jumps from Korea to Brazil to Abu Dhabi. What next, are they going to start carrying around a 100 lbs battery pack they can only use for a few seconds per lap? Actually, I'm amazed the FIA even allowed lithium ion batts, considering the cost. A trailer full of deep cycle lead acids off the back of the car would be more fitting all things considered. A green stripe would have to be painted on them though, to improve their compostability. Maybe they could change trailers during the pit stop. Scratch that, refueling is too expensive, I forgot.

[autogyro]

It is not so much about how expensive things in F1 are, it is more about how cost effective they are.

[ringo]

Will the wings be hydraulic or motor operated?

Secondly it's inevitable that not all adjustable wings will be made equal. Some teams will definitely have a better system.

[ringo]

Adjustable rear wings
Under new moveable bodywork regulations for next season, drivers will be able to adjust the rear wing from the cockpit, with the current moveable front wing due to be dropped. The system’s availability is expected to be electronically governed and under initial proposals it would only be activated when a driver is less than one second behind another at pre-determined points on the track. The system would then be deactivated once the driver brakes. It would be available at all times throughout practice and qualifying and, in combination with KERS (below), should boost overtaking. Also like KERS, it won’t be compulsory.

It seems it wont be compulsory, but only a foolish team will run without it.

The predetermined parts of the track, solved a potential loop hole, ie drivers activating it before they exit a turn to a long straight.

It will be elontronically governed, but whether the system will be hydraulic or electic motor is still to be seen.
Hard to say which system will be heavier.

[agip]

...it would only be activated when a driver is less than one second behind another at pre-determined points on the track.

I love artificial rules.

(joke)

[Mysticf1]

...it would only be activated when a driver is less than one second behind another at pre-determined points on the track.

I love artificial rules.

(joke)

i have defended endless rule changes to my non forum f1 buddies, but this i cannot ... what a joke it makes of F1

[wesley123]

I hope this thing doesnt work at all and causes a car to take off and then the driver and 2 marshalls die, only to see it banned. This is seriously the most moronic thing you could ever put into formula 1, i'd rather see an one make series or traffic lights than this.

[Belatti]

I hope this thing doesnt work at all and causes a car to take off and then the driver and 2 marshalls die

OK, the rule is stupid but still that is a harsh hope, dont you think?

[747heavy]

while the application of the rule, as when the driver can use it, is open to discussion, and maybe a bit artificial, the moveable wing as such, is not a stupid idea.

Moveable wings or aerodynamics, have been raced in other series, so I would not say, that it is all that bad from a technical point of view.
Reducing drag on the straights, is not such a bad thing - IMHO, that´s while some people came up with the F-duct.

I would agree, that the way the driver can use the device, as it is planned, it´s a bit "artificial/strange", and I personally don´t like it.
On the other hand, it could make for some interesting strategies, as you see sometimes in NASCAR or Indycars when they race in the ovals, and to an extend in Moto GP.
You have to choose, when you want to lead the race, as often the guy who leads into the last lap/straight is going to loose it, because he is just providing the slipstream for the rest.

If the use of the adjustemnt is allowed in qualifying, we may see some interesting team tactics, with team mates providing a tow, like in touring car racing on some tracks. (but I doubt it)

[lolzi]

I hope this thing doesnt work at all and causes a car to take off and then the driver and 2 marshalls die, only to see it banned. This is seriously the most moronic thing you could ever put into formula 1, i'd rather see an one make series or traffic lights than this.

Die?! I hope a car takes off, nearly hits a little boy and makes a perfect flip only to drive on (think Monza '91, only with a working car afterwards). To apologise to the little boy, he will be given tickets to all the F1 races including hotel, pitpass etc.

[Rozza]

Just a thought, seen a few times this season when a car has been able to get a toe but not been able to pass due to hitting the rev limiter. With Kers and a low drag rear wing for overtaking how much will this effect the topspeed? will it be enough to become a factor when setting the ratios?