Question: chassis

[Guest]

Gday,

i was wondering if anyone knew what materials were used by the f1 teams as chassis inserts. In one section of the mechanics area it mention that they are metal, but it doesn't say what kind of metal. I was keen to find out exactly what metal it is that is used.

Cheers,
Steve

[Monstrobolaxa]

The core metal material used in F1 composite constructions is aluminium honeycomb. If you look at a bee honeycomb it's in the exact same hexagonal shape but made from aluminium...this is the mostly used material.

Some teams use kevlar honeycomb but in non essencial structures, like bargeboards, engine cover. What I mean with non essencial structures is that they do now influence the torsional ridgity of the car.

[MRE]

Again, I knew so many time question about chassis emerge here, but I still wondering what is the excatly F1 car's chassis is. I had read about tub where front suspension mounted and driver seat located. Is that a chassis? Is it the thing that they spent a lot of time do develop?

[Monstrobolaxa]

Well some people call the tub the chassis....but usually when they say that the chassis is being developed they mean the whole car. In your normal day-to-day car the chassis is where all the major components are conected (engine, geabox, susp, side panels) so basicly it's the metal frame of the car....it is also where all the loads conserning the car moving are distributed.

In a Formula 1 car the tub is the place where all the major components are connected to....though most of the forces applies on the car are distribuited through the gearbox to the engine to the tub.....so the chassis on a F1 car can be considered as the whole car. Notice that some people do only call the tub as the chassis....

[Guest]

hey,
thanks for that, i realise there is honeycomb core in between the layers of carbon fibre, is this also the case where parts eg suspension brackets are bolted or mounted? Or is a different material used where loads are tranferred? We are building a solar car, with carbon fibre chassis with nomex? core, but we need inserts where we are bolting components such as suspension rods to take the loads. The nomex wont do. So im trying to find a suitable material for this. Any ideas? we had thought aluminium, but it is quite heavy.

Steve

[MRE]

I suggest you to use a rivet as bolt to connect the suspension. It is toughter and lighter than the alluminium.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Yup...all the loads are transfered to the carbon fibre tub...there is a special was of drilling all the holes needed to bolt something onto the carbon fibre tub but I don't know how to do it correctly....I have worked with a company called Advanced Composites they are very helpfull...so probably the more tecnical questions you should ask them....I also know a link that is like a discussion forum on composites...so I'll post it back as soon as I find it.

[scarbs]

The inserts are commonly solid carbonfirbe blocks, also the teams use aluminium or titanium for threaded inserts. Increasingly MMCs are used as their shape can be formed at the manufacturing stage and their thermal rate of expansion matchesthe carbon fibres'.

[Guest]

thanks scarbs,
that was the info i was looking for. What though are mmc's?
with the carbon fibre blocks is it just lots and lots of layer of carbon fibre, or a box with a cavity? Our chassis will be about 23mm thick, about 2-3mm of that is carbon fibre, so at a guess i reckon we would need 100+ layers of carbon fibre to create a block of the right thickness. Do you think this would be appropriate?

thanks
Steve

[West]

MMC's are metal matrix composites, something like bonding different metals to gain the inherent strenghs of each

[scarbs]

the inserts are solid carbon, if you cant buy a suitable form it form your suppliers, then machining from a self manufactuered (100 layer?) block is the only option.

[schumiGO]

I have some interesting foto from Ferrari gallery in Maranello.
And one foto of rear wishbone.

[schumiGO]

Special Thanks to Monstrobolaxa for exlainig process of foto posting!!!!
Best question!! What is this?? ))

My try to explain(tell me if I'm wrong)
1- upper rear wishbone
2- Push for Toe in (How Guy change the leight of this PUSH???)
3- (i don't know correct name of this part) Change-dirctional arm that conect to Push and shock-absorber.
4- Wire to keep wheel near the car if all whishbone was broke.
5-Wire to all detectors (In very good zooming i found 6-7 pins ))) in this connector )
6-?? think this part hold the the torsion springs or(I hear Ferrari use Torsion shock-absorbers) for absorbers. Or meybe holder for Antiroll bar.))
7-? Looks like holder for point 3 But it's possible to be torsion spring ))))



If somebody know right answer,please, write here. And its very interesting to see some foto or plan, design of rear suspension in F1 car.

[Monstrobolaxa]

number 2 - I'm not sure if it's a track rod (like you mention it doesn't have any possibility of change the trackrod length) or a wishbone cause Ferrari have already used 2 element wishbones, instead of a complete wishbone.

number 3 is called a rocker

number 6 is part of the anti-roll mechanism (if I'm not mistaken)

[Monstrobolaxa]

Like I promised here is a link for a site that has a huge database of links and info about composites:

http://www.netcomposites.com/