JB's driving style versus late apex and preserving tyres

[lolzi]

Raymond

You only have to look at instances where the tyres were required to last, only JB could do the longer stints(apart from a couple of Torro Rosso and Mercedes Forays past half distance in some races).

Amplify this, and Buttons skillset to manage tyres will hold him in good stead again. Although by how much is a mystery, because will he be the only one doing 2 or 3 stops whereas "racers" like Hamilton do 4?

What is there to be gained?

At this moment in time we can only speculate, so if its hard evidence you require you may be waiting till mid season to get your answer.

But 'people' have been saying that the Bridgestones degraded because of heat, and with the Pirellis it's just plain and simple wear. I don't think you can do much about wear, unless one can find a line that is shorter around the racetrack or something

[raymondu999]

Raymond

You only have to look at instances where the tyres were required to last, only JB could do the longer stints(apart from a couple of Torro Rosso and Mercedes Forays past half distance in some races).

Amplify this, and Buttons skillset to manage tyres will hold him in good stead again. Although by how much is a mystery, because will he be the only one doing 2 or 3 stops whereas "racers" like Hamilton do 4?

What is there to be gained?

At this moment in time we can only speculate, so if its hard evidence you require you may be waiting till mid season to get your answer.

That wasn't my point, actually. I know we saw JB very good at making a set of tyres last. BUT, how does it actually do it? That's the question I'm getting at. The "Why" not the "how." if that makes any sense

[marcush.]

the magic is not to go over the peak of the tyre grip .Tyre grip does rise to a peak with increasing slip angles up to a max ,increase the slip angle more and grip will not increase but stagnate or drop a bit(depending on tyre charaecteristic)or fall off sharply .the grip level with lower than optimum slipangles may be the same as when having too much of it BUT the temps with too much will sore and with too low slip angle the tyre will be colder...So the guy who finds the fine line not pushing too much will make the tyre live much longer.

[Just_a_fan]

A number of commentators have stated that the difference between the Pirellis and the Bridgestones is that the Bridgestones would last if you kept them in their temperature window. Button's style / ability allowed him to do that and he benefitted.

The Pirellis, however, have been designed / produced differently and their performance drop off isn't to do with the temperature window but rather with a physical deterioration. This means that the driver is less able to "look after the tyres" in the way that he could previously.

There is a suggestion that the driver can get the tyres to perform for longer if he is gentle early on in their life but it's not as big a gain as would have been with the Bridgestones. Noone will be doing 50laps on soft tyres again, that's for sure.

I think it was Hughes in Autosport who suggested that the drop off in performance will be such that even a careful driver will be unable to keep the tyres working well enough to hold off a guy who pits and gains fresh rubber. If the fresh rubber is worth 3-5s / lap for any more than 4-5 laps then the new rubber driver will quickly recoup the 25s pit time loss and will then still be on newer rubber than the careful driver. In effect, the careful driver will lose one of the weapons in his armoury.

The real issue might be who can programme their pitstops to be on the fresh tyres last so that they have the best performance in the last few laps. The pitwall might be working even harder this year trying top manage strategies. Expect to hear lots of drivers pleading with the teams to be allowed to pit for new rubber.

I expect the last 10-15 laps to be a bit like Q3 with teams vying to be the "last guy out" on fresh rubber. It should be quite interesting if so. Who blinks first...

[raymondu999]

Yes I think Button pushes in such a way that they actually are getting worn, but his smooth style keeps temps in check and so the wear levels off. I remember seeing him after he pitted for slicks in Melbourne. You saw him simply churning out 160 green sectors one after another. (Ok, i might have exaggerated, but I was amazed at how he was able to set personal bests every 2 out of 3 laps.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I wasn't actually talking about nursing tyres. I was wondering how Jenson's smoother style, with his smooth steering sweeps and brake/throttle application would change things in terms of tyre wear.

And I don't get it. You say tyre nursing would be useless/dangerous, but tyre "management" would be useful? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the two AFAIK are one and the same concept

Raymond

You only have to look at instances where the tyres were required to last, only JB could do the longer stints(apart from a couple of Torro Rosso and Mercedes Forays past half distance in some races).

Amplify this, and Buttons skillset to manage tyres will hold him in good stead again. Although by how much is a mystery, because will he be the only one doing 2 or 3 stops whereas "racers" like Hamilton do 4?

What is there to be gained?

At this moment in time we can only speculate, so if its hard evidence you require you may be waiting till mid season to get your answer.

That wasn't my point, actually. I know we saw JB very good at making a set of tyres last. BUT, how does it actually do it?

i think you answered that

[raymondu999]

Ok, Jenson does it by being smooth on throttle/brake/steering. BUT what actually happens to the tyres as a result of this smoother style rather than a more aggressive style? Let's not talk about lockups/wheelspin in this situation though to not overcomplicate matters.

[Caito]

What happens with JB in my personal opinion is the following:

Given a generic lateral force vs slip angle


There's a maximum. Let's say the maximum is at 100 grip units. That would be the ideally fastest lap. But there are two ways of getting 90 grip unis. One is below best slip angle and the other is above best slip angle. I believe Button manages to stay below the maximum.

At higher slip angles portions of the tire patch are sliding, and you get less increase in lateral force with an increase of slip angle. This is called the transition region. As the curve tops out, more of the contact patch is sliding and the tire produces less lateral force. After the peak of the curve, lateral force can fall off 30% within a few degrees of extra slip angle. At these high slip angles most of the contact patch is sliding, producing a lot of heat and wear.

Bye!

[marcush.]

the tyre will show a certain behaviour when reaching its peak grip wich is to be felt in the steering as a reduced self aligning torque and at the rear as a sensation that coulthard or Blundell would describe a tiptoeor nervous rearend.
so the steering feedbak is not very useful when you are already over the top...

[n smikle]

That wasn't my point, actually. I know we saw JB very good at making a set of tyres last. BUT, how does it actually do it? That's the question I'm getting at. The "Why" not the "how." if that makes any sense

He drives slow. Simple as that. Check all the lap data and you will see.

[n smikle]

I can say that because there were times when he needed the tyres to last longer and he could not because he was gunning it! Remember Monza? Korea? Australia?
Even Paddy low has said there is no noticeable diffrence for the bridgestones and the tyres are just a resource. You use em now, or save them for later. The best tyre managers finish the race quicker.

Now as to the mechanical aciton, The only thing Button can influence is his temperament with the steering, the brakes and the throttle (so magnitudes of these three parameters and time). If time is a big factor with the tyres then maybe he is doing something profound at the tyre patch but during the race how does he know that it is working? Where are the results that he can make his tyres last AND finish before the tyre shredding beast (Hamilton) in a dry race?

[marcush.]

well...
like it or not if you can drive on a set of tyres at competitive speed for the whole race as Vettel did there is no ways Button could gain an advantage by nursing his or due to his gentle style....is he a slow driver because of that?

[n smikle]

He is a very fast driver, but keeping the wear constant, he drives slower than his team mate.

[DaveW]

I have no detailed knowledge of JB's driving style. However, a few weeks ago I was shown speed traces of two drivers overlaid. Driver A braked later and had mid-corner speeds consistently several kph higher than driver B. However, driver B consistently achieved higher corner exit speeds, & maintained that speed advantage until the following corner. In this case (& on this track), driver B returned the better lap times & was able to maintain competitive lap times for longer during a stint - an example of the old racing adage "slow in, fast out". I think that Caito's excellent sketch might suggest why driver B was easier on his tyres, & also why his performance might be more affected by changes in lateral balance.

[mariano]

I think Button's line is the purple's one, and M. Schumacher's is the brokenline (geometrical's)'s one.