superplastic forming is a posibilty but for 2 interim diffusers in the space of 10 days it's not likely.
Those dies more than likely are made from stainless billet, with high surface finish. That's a hell of a lot of machining.
Why take days to CNC a stainless steel die, when you can print the diffuser or CNC a little plastic mold and fill it with wax, do an investment casting all within a day or 2?
I do like the idea of that 3D Printing using Powdered Titanium however the size of the Diffuser seems to be the issue here, I can't find any machine's that have that machine bed size (not saying there aren't any, but that I can't find one)
Regarding the dies required for Superplastic Forming, maybe they didn't have to manufacture completely new ones, but maybe recycle ones they use for a CF diffuser ? only one side of a die is required be it male or female, but some info on the tooling required:
Tool materialsfor forming titanium are chosen to suit the forming operation, forming temperature, and expected quantity of produc- tion. The cost of tool material is generally a small fraction of the cost of tools, unless forming temperature is such that heat-resistant alloy tooling is required. Cold forming can be done with epoxy-faced aluminum, steel, or zinc tools. Hot forming tools are fabricated from ceramic, cast iron, tool steel, stainless steel, and nickel- base alloys.
How difficult would it take to manufacture one side of a die out of ceramic ?
Again, investment casting could have been used, but looking at the diffuser it would seem quite a large piece to try and cast when forming a sheet into the shape would seem to be the easiest choice.
I would have thought a part that's been cast or printed wouldn't take kindly to any modifications or tweeks needed after the parts been manufactured, but a formed one could be adjusted if required.
What do they do for plastic aplications like Carbon fibre? I saw plasma spraying.. won't it melt the resin in the carbon fibre? Or is it to be assumed that the previous Macca diffuser was some kind of ceramic carbon fiber?
But anyway, I was checking how much of it would be uncovered titanium.
As to size of a DMLS machine, i tried to find a big one but the work area is trully small. The largest quick prototying machines are for plastic and sand. Which could still be used if the titanium is cast.
If it is instead cold worked. I wondering how that goes compared to say cold working steel or aluminum.
n smikle wrote:What do they do for plastic aplications like Carbon fibre? I saw plasma spraying.. won't it melt the resin in the carbon fibre? Or is it to be assumed that the previous Macca diffuser was some kind of ceramic carbon fiber?
But anyway, I was checking how much of it would be uncovered titanium.
As to size of a DMLS machine, i tried to find a big one but the work area is trully small. The largest quick prototying machines are for plastic and sand. Which could still be used if the titanium is cast.
If it is instead cold worked. I wondering how that goes compared to say cold working steel or aluminum.
CARBON COMPOSITE COATING
Zircotec has further refined its process to allow ceramic to be plasma-sprayed onto the surface of carbon composite, glass-fibre composite and a range of plastic materials. This coating provides protection against excess temperature, allowing these materials to be operated in environments where they might not otherwise be suitable.
regarding the cold working / forming, it can be done also, but has it's drawbacks
akshat21 wrote:Just a quick question, if they did use titanium in making the Diffuser wouldn't it add more weight to the car??
And if so, once they do design it out of Carbon Fiber, wouldn't the weight saving result in an automatic increase in performance?
It would definitely be lighter, I believe a carbon composite of same volume is approximately 4 times lighter than Titanium ? (maybe someone can confirm or dismiss this though)
However, i'm not so sure if it's as simple as that, all cars are usually under the mandatory weight, and they just add ballast to bring it within the regs, my guess is they would have removed weight from the ballast to compensate for the extra weight in the diffuser, so performance is compromised by weight distribution then and not the fact that there maybe more weight.
hollowBallistix wrote:It would definitely be lighter, I believe a carbon composite of same volume is approximately 4 times lighter than Titanium ? (maybe someone can confirm or dismiss this though)
However, i'm not so sure if it's as simple as that, all cars are usually under the mandatory weight, and they just add ballast to bring it within the regs, my guess is they would have removed weight from the ballast to compensate for the extra weight in the diffuser, so performance is compromised by weight distribution then and not the fact that there maybe more weight.
But this year, there is a mandatory weight distribution.
hollowBallistix wrote:It would definitely be lighter, I believe a carbon composite of same volume is approximately 4 times lighter than Titanium ? (maybe someone can confirm or dismiss this though)
However, i'm not so sure if it's as simple as that, all cars are usually under the mandatory weight, and they just add ballast to bring it within the regs, my guess is they would have removed weight from the ballast to compensate for the extra weight in the diffuser, so performance is compromised by weight distribution then and not the fact that there maybe more weight.
But this year, there is a mandatory weight distribution.
Yes, but there is an error range applied too.
The weight difference between CF and titanium for the diffuser is more likely to be a mass moment of inertia issue - more mass sat a long way from the CoG means it's slightly less nimble. And I wonder how much additional mass we're talking about.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
I don't see why it's a problem. I mean, There still will be ballast and there probably will still be less than the required weight, still leaving them room to play with the weight distribution. Also, isn't the diffuser practically the lowest part on the car at the rear anyways? I'd imagine it wouldn't have any detriment on the CofG of the car
Yes I understand that, but there is still some scope to adjust the distribution slightly, and it may impede the performance.
What I don't really get is this though...
FIA Technical Regulation
4.2 - For 2011 only, the weight applied on the front and rear wheels must not be less than 291kg and 342kg respectively at all times during the qualifying practice session. If, when required for checking, a car is not already fitted with dry-weather tyres, it will be weighed on a set of dry-weather tyres selected by the FIA technical delegate.
the total weight according to that then is 633kg so 54% over the rear & 46% over the front, but isn't the minimum weight of the vehicle with driver 640kg ?
so does that mean then that they have about 7kg ballast they can effectively place where they want ? surely there's no way that the weight distribution check is done without the driver ? and what about fuel ? how do they take that into consideration ?
