2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[zeroday]

He's probably winning races though with a step similar to what McLaren made in Austria last year.

You don't have to dig too deep to put a dent in the "driver doesn't make a difference" theory by looking what Max Verstappen is doing to Sergio Perez on a routine basis in the same car.

Or what Hamilton did to Bottas over a race distance. Both Bottas and Perez are multiple-GP winners to boot.

Max is better than Sergio, Hamilton is better than Bottas is not shocking news. Some drivers are better than others. But no driver can go faster than the car is physically able to go is my point. If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

I agree with that. I think another way to frame what I said would be, in equal machinery I think Max is clearly faster than George and whatever this burned out version of LH is.

Unrealistic comparison. Most would (and probably still do) have said the same about LH able to school Max in equal machinery when LH last drove a good car (ie. his entire career up to and including the W12 -- so decade+ straight). These last 3 tractor "cars" destroy driver confidence due to their unpredictability which forces them to change their style and hesitate. In short, they aren't being their true selves.

Max, has been fortunate to have driven good Newey designed cars his entire career, but had suffered from bad engines (e.g. Renault was unreliable) in his early career, until they moved to Honda. So, if/when Max finally drives a bad car i fully expect people will begin to say Max wouldnt be able to compete in equal machinery, totally forgetting his confidence will almost certainly will take a nose dive in his finally first badly designed car -- hiding his true abilities.

This is why it bad to speculate and one can only get a vague glimpse by basing it on careers, not recent snapshots.

[organic]

The so called good Newey designed cars ruined the confidence of many drivers coming through the RB ranks.. how many times did Gasly & Albon crash in 2019-2020?

Acting like RB always had good cars now is revisionist. For much of 2016-2020 they were no better than a W13/w14 which are somehow tractors.

[Cs98]

He's got way more experience in single seaters than Max ever had. Or, indeed, Kimi Raikkonen.

Or is that inconvenient?

It doesn't make much sense to give him dispensation when the rules were changed to specifically prevent people below 18 from joining.

Convenient rule changes aren't always the right rule changes. If the current triple world champion was allowed to do F1 after almost no single seater experience then there's little valid argument preventing others from doing the same.

"He's a kid and so can't be any good!"
"Yeah, but Max..."

Frankly, if it was me then Max and several others would have had to wait - F1 should be a grown up sport. Wait until they are early 20s before letting them in.

There's nothing "convenient" about the rule change. They were made years ago because they didn't want non-adults in the sport. And I can understand why, even if you think they are skilled enough it would be a terrible look were something to go wrong and that kid either hurt himself or hurt someone else. Might even leave the FIA and F1 on the hook for allowing it.

[ringo]

The so called good Newey designed cars ruined the confidence of many drivers coming through the RB ranks.. how many times did Gasly & Albon crash in 2019-2020?

Acting like RB always had good cars now is revisionist. For much of 2016-2020 they were no better than a W13/w14 which are somehow tractors.

Lets not rewrite history. Every redbull car except 2014 was good. Even Kyvaat was qualifying well in the Redbull. Redbull were always the best chassis with a crap engine since 2014. So much so they could have Monaco wins and be in no mans land on other tracks because they could get podiums if it was not a power track.
At no point did Max ever drive a bad formula 1 car. W14 and w13 are nightmares compared to any redbull since 2006.
"Tractors" ...redbull chassis... Adrian Newey pened... really?

Anyhow I think Perez to Mercedes on a 2 year deal and Sainz to Redbull.
Antonelli goes to Williams in 2025 and 2027 goes to Mercedes.

[Silent Storm]

The so called good Newey designed cars ruined the confidence of many drivers coming through the RB ranks.. how many times did Gasly & Albon crash in 2019-2020?

Acting like RB always had good cars now is revisionist. For much of 2016-2020 they were no better than a W13/w14 which are somehow tractors.

People seem to forget the snappy rear end issue Redbull had for a long time and their slow start to every season as they focused on fixing their problems rather than add performance.

[AMG.Tzan]

The so called good Newey designed cars ruined the confidence of many drivers coming through the RB ranks.. how many times did Gasly & Albon crash in 2019-2020?

Acting like RB always had good cars now is revisionist. For much of 2016-2020 they were no better than a W13/w14 which are somehow tractors.

Lets not rewrite history. Every redbull car except 2014 was good. Even Kyvaat was qualifying well in the Redbull. Redbull were always the best chassis with a crap engine since 2014. So much so they could have Monaco wins and be in no mans land on other tracks because they could get podiums if it was not a power track.
At no point did Max ever drive a bad formula 1 car. W14 and w13 are nightmares compared to any redbull since 2006.
"Tractors" ...redbull chassis... Adrian Newey pened... really?

Anyhow I think Perez to Mercedes on a 2 year deal and Sainz to Redbull.
Antonelli goes to Williams in 2025 and 2027 goes to Mercedes.

What a lie…

Classic Red Bull opinion on 2014-2020! The reality being that Newey and Red Bull never mastered these rules for some reason! Probably rake producing rear instability! The engine was always an excuse just like McLaren all those years…

And how do we know this? Well the 2019-2021 Honda engine was wide good and reliable! Specially in 2021 it was the most reliable and powerful in the field! The Mercedes was degrading quite fast…

So if Red Bull’s chassis were always that good why didn’t they win 2021 by a mile then? Maybe because their chassis wasn’t that good after all! Plus don’t forget that the 2021 cars were 2020 cars with cut floors! So guess where Mercedes lost all that performance from 2020 to 2021…

[CHT]

Max is better than Sergio, Hamilton is better than Bottas is not shocking news. Some drivers are better than others. But no driver can go faster than the car is physically able to go is my point. If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

I agree with that. I think another way to frame what I said would be, in equal machinery I think Max is clearly faster than George and whatever this burned out version of LH is.

Unrealistic comparison. Most would (and probably still do) have said the same about LH able to school Max in equal machinery when LH last drove a good car (ie. his entire career up to and including the W12 -- so decade+ straight). These last 3 tractor "cars" destroy driver confidence due to their unpredictability which forces them to change their style and hesitate. In short, they aren't being their true selves.

Max, has been fortunate to have driven good Newey designed cars his entire career, but had suffered from bad engines (e.g. Renault was unreliable) in his early career, until they moved to Honda. So, if/when Max finally drives a bad car i fully expect people will begin to say Max wouldnt be able to compete in equal machinery, totally forgetting his confidence will almost certainly will take a nose dive in his finally first badly designed car -- hiding his true abilities.

This is why it bad to speculate and one can only get a vague glimpse by basing it on careers, not recent snapshots.

LH F1 career is actually going in the opposite direction of other WDC on the grid

For most driver, their career starts with a smaller or junior team fighting at the back or mid field before progressing to top team. e.g Alonso, Vettel, Max etc

Whereas for LH, he started right at the top along side WDC at Mclaren before moving to Merc to dominate the sports for more than half a decade. Thankfully for the sports LH is now in a more challenging situation fighting in mid field and watching others pop the champagne on the podium.

LH will never get a chance to drive alongside Max for sure because RBR doesnt think LH can add value to the team.

[j_ste]

The so called good Newey designed cars ruined the confidence of many drivers coming through the RB ranks.. how many times did Gasly & Albon crash in 2019-2020?

Acting like RB always had good cars now is revisionist. For much of 2016-2020 they were no better than a W13/w14 which are somehow tractors.

The main issue those cars had was Power related. Red Bull as a team were fighting with a hand behind their back for those years...as soon as they got some PU parity, we saw what happened.

[Vanja #66]

Redbull were always the best chassis with a crap engine since 2014.

I'd only add RB13 from 2017 was not the best chassis on the grid, but Newey took a lot of inspiration from SF70 and made a great chassis next year.

[Luscion]

Both Russell and Hamilton have said that they're done doing the experiments from now on, and that their quali pace is just what it is for now



Shovlin also seems to be saying that Merc will be making changes to the car after the sprint race

The aim in the Sprint is to get both cars into the points. We know that will be a challenge from P11 and P12 but we will be fully focused on doing so. We will also be looking to use the Sprint to further our understanding of the car and to put it in a better place for Qualifying and the Grand Prix later in the weekend.

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/miam ... g-in-miami

[hollus]

Pay attention, Mercedes team thread here.
Less red and blue teams, thanks.

[Fluido]

You dont understand what mean lack of power, we are talking about 100hp maybe

[chrisc90]

You dont understand what mean lack of power, we are talking about 100hp maybe

Impossible. Mclaren and the others arent lacking 100bhp. I do believe the engine modes have to be the same across all customer teams.

[Fluido]

You dont understand what mean lack of power, we are talking about 100hp maybe

Impossible. Mclaren and the others arent lacking 100bhp. I do believe the engine modes have to be the same across all customer teams.

I talk about merc vs renault engine, in that time..

[Venturiation]

I believe Mercedes is truly finished, they have to fix their wind tunnel and tools and 2026 cars work start in 2025
They Don't have enough time