Question about a proposed 2015 braking reg'.

[Webber2011]

Hey guys, I was given a link regarding the new standing start after safety car rule
I think it's quite dangerous and not needed, but I noticed another thing mentioned there.

- New regulations to ensure that the brake discs rotate at the same speed as the wheels.

Can anyone enlighten me as to why the disks would not ?
I have a fairly basic technical understanding compared to most of you guys, and this interests me a great deal.

Is this something to do with energy recovery ?

Any answers will be much appreciated.

Here's the link http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-spo ... 014-munich

Cheers,
Simon

[tim|away]

Putting the rule in place about brake discs rotating at the same speed as the wheels aims at avoiding areas for potential exploits. Apparently, there was the idea to rotate brake discs at higher speeds and to use the resulting vortices for aerodynamic purposes.

[Webber2011]

Thanks mate, but how do you rotate the disc at a different rate to the wheel ?
I thought they were one and the same when it came to rotation speed, so I'm actually more interested in how it all works.

Forgive my ignorance, as I said, I'm no engineer

[wuzak]

Thanks mate, but how do you rotate the disc at a different rate to the wheel ?
I thought they were one and the same when it came to rotation speed, so I'm actually more interested in how it all works.

Forgive my ignorance, as I said, I'm no engineer

A geared hub.

[matt21]

It should also be possible to increase braking force at the wheel when the disc is rotating at a higher speed. So you can use smaller brakes for same braking power or with the same size you don´t have to work them as hard as without a gearing between the wheel and the disc.

We have seen a lot of brake problems in the last few races.

[Tommy Cookers]

the current transmission rules assume that the wheels are fixed to the axle but do not mandate this
so coaxial gearing eg between the brake disc and the wheel can legally subvert the intent of those rules
there has been mentioned in a thread a few months ago
and there might be aspects related to the rules defining permissible recovery or related rear brake management

maybe this new rule is just the simplest way of tidying away such anomalies in the existing rules ?

[Webber2011]

Thanks guys.
Much appreciated

[matt21]

We had a discussion about a planetary gearing between the drive shafts and the wheel in another thread in order to adapt the gearing to different circuits. As you know the gear ration from engine to drive shafts is fixed for the whole season.
IMO the new rule does not prevent this. But we have to wait for the exact wording.

[autogyro]

Could be to outlaw an idea that came from my ESERU.
In this I use the 1st planetary set as a constantly variable clutch to replace the conventional clutch.
If you fix the sun gear of a planetary set to the drive shaft and lock the planet gears as an assembly stationary (to the hub).
The annulus will free wheel in the reverse direction.
If you use the annulus as a brake disk you have a convenient constantly variable wheel brake with far better control than a disk that always rotates at wheel speed.
It would help solve the balance problems between rear brakes and energy recovery.

[matt21]

Reading the regulations I find them a little weird. They are talking of the braking system acting on the wheels and about brake discs attached to the wheels. The definition section says, the wheel is the flange and rim. But IMO brake discs are attached to the hubs.

Also the rules are saying, that you´re only allowed to have one braking system, except the powerunit. Could somebody have found a loophole here and but a brake into the powerunit? This would be rotate with a different speed.

Also, maybe somebody has put brakes in the differntial or the gearbox.

[autogyro]

Reading the regulations I find them a little weird. They are talking of the braking system acting on the wheels and about brake discs attached to the wheels. The definition section says, the wheel is the flange and rim. But IMO brake discs are attached to the hubs.

Also the rules are saying, that you´re only allowed to have one braking system, except the powerunit. Could somebody have found a loophole here and but a brake into the powerunit? This would be rotate with a different speed.

Also, maybe somebody has put brakes in the differntial or the gearbox.

There are already brake systems in the differential and the power unit.
It just depends on how you define a brake.
Any form of gearing can be used as a brake, as can a compressed air cylinder in an engine.