Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2014

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Kingshark
Kingshark
0
Joined: 26 May 2014, 05:41

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

Red bulls were fastest in final sector in monaco which is nothing but corner after corner and a run to the finish.
Yes, by a mesmerizing 0.047 (which can easily be attributed to small driver mistakes).

Mercedes were constantly (lap after lap) fastest in all 3 sectors in the race. Red Bull were not able to challenge them on the one circuit which best suits their car; despite the fact that Pirelli brought the super soft and soft tyres to Monaco, which suit Mercedes the least.
Also RB were always close in the rain where power is not so important (australia, malaysia).
In the rain, one of the most important factors is to get the Pirelli tyres to work in the conditions.

Ferrari were fastest or equal fastest when it rained in 2012, as seen in Malaysia, Great Britain and Germany. Do you really think that the F2012 was the best chassis out there? What about Sauber or Williams's insane speed at Malaysia 2012? Or Force India's incredible speed at Brazil 2012?

It's about getting the tyres to work. Yes, Red Bull's chassis is (relatively speaking) better than their engine, but not better than the (already legendary) WO5.
Merc was not 2s a lap faster than RB in silverstone, nor were they 1s ahead in spain.
Qualifying suggests that the WO5 was 1.620 seconds faster in Silverstone and 1.053 seconds faster than the RB10 in Spain.
In spain Vettel actually gained 7-8s on both merc drivers in his final stint and only fell back after he caught rai and bot.
Yes because he was on much fresher tyres on the most tyre-demanding circuit on the calendar.

I was actually talking about qualifying pace, but you can bring up race pace if you want to. Where was Red Bull in Monaco? The one circuit which is virtually corner after corner, and cars never reach significant top speed. They were slower than Mercedes in the race, plain and simple, despite the fact that the super soft and soft tyres were used (which suit Merc the least).
Merc engine alone is woeth a lot of lap time. 80bhp was said to be worth more than 2s round monza, so 1s round barcelona or silverstone is not something hard to believe.
Did Renault suffer anywhere near from so much lap time deficit to Ferrari in 2003 when they had a severaly underpowered engine in 2003? No, the R23 was only 0.471 seconds slower than the F2003GA in Spain and 0.172 seconds slower in Silverstone. So why can't Red Bull replicate such performance?

The RB10 is a good chassis, no doubt, but not great nor on the same level as the WO5 (my guesswork). Even if Red Bull had Mercedes engine, the Mercedes work factory team would still be leading both championships IMO (although it would be closer).

Also, the fact is that Red Bull are very often the slowest in the speed trap of all the Renault powered teams. This suggests that they run a lot more wing than most other cars, which also (to an extend) flatters their package.

User avatar
Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

Kingshark wrote: The RB10 is a good chassis, no doubt, but not great nor on the same level as the WO5 (my guesswork).
Lets agree here.

Kingshark
Kingshark
0
Joined: 26 May 2014, 05:41

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

OK.

What do you think about the Red Bull's chances in Germany? Hockenheim is a slow and technical circuit, I suspect that the RB10 will fare better than it did at Silverstone. I think they will be behind Mercedes but ahead of Williams this time.

Of course, around old Hockenheim they would be completely murdered (even more so than Monza), but that's just a side note.

Harsha
Harsha
12
Joined: 01 Dec 2012, 14:35

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

Kingshark wrote:OK.

What do you think about the Red Bull's chances in Germany? Hockenheim is a slow and technical circuit, I suspect that the RB10 will fare better than it did at Silverstone. I think they will be behind Mercedes but ahead of Williams this time.

Of course, around old Hockenheim they would be completely murdered (even more so than Monza), but that's just a side note.
No they will qualify ahead of williams but some how Williams come ahead with strategies and RBR is duck with straight speeds no where to pass in Germany except the Back straight and They wont be close to hard breaking zones so simple RBR will be 3rd fastest team

User avatar
Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

I think RB will struggle in Germany similar as they did in Austria tbh. Here's why:

Everyone is quick to point out fric ban is gonna hit merc the most. I, however, think it's quite possible RB might suffer most with the incoming rule change. Remember how RB was struggling last year at the beginning of the season with front limited circuits? China being a prime example. Then they were suddenly on par with merc in hungary and then completely took off after the summer break. Korea is heavy front limited and RB was comfortably the quickest. I believe most of their progress was due to highly advanced fric system, which could very well have overtaken merc's version.
Similar stuff in Austin sector 3. RB were in fact not the quickest car trough high DF 1st sector (race pace, lotus was quicker most of the time), but were miles clear or the rest in 3d where you need excellent front bite or else you kill the lap. Good mechanical grip is the most important there which would be impossible without a good fric.
My 2 cents. We'll find out soon enough.

Kingshark
Kingshark
0
Joined: 26 May 2014, 05:41

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

"Sebastian Vettel admits Red Bull 'haven’t closed the gap' to Mercedes since Australia"

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... -australia

User avatar
djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

Some nice comments on Dan in this article from Dario Franchitti:
Daniel Ricciardo has all the skills required to win a Formula 1 world championship and enjoy a successful career at the pinnacle of motorsport, says four-time IndyCar champion Dario Franchitti.
The legendary Scottish driver witnessed Ricciardo produce one of his best drives of the season to finish third in the British Grand Prix for his fourth podium of the campaign.
http://www.speedcafe.com/2014/07/11/fra ... -material/
"In downforce we trust"

User avatar
Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

Kingshark wrote:"Sebastian Vettel admits Red Bull 'haven’t closed the gap' to Mercedes since Australia"

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... -australia
Well, they haven't. That much can be seen clearly.

Kingshark
Kingshark
0
Joined: 26 May 2014, 05:41

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

I'm very curious to see where Red Bull will be (performance wise) in Hungary and Singapore, although I still expect Merc to win both of these races.

Harsha
Harsha
12
Joined: 01 Dec 2012, 14:35

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

Is the Ban on Fric Suspension caused RBR not to install their front and rear update packages which should come to effect in Austria , if News is right teams got the letter on FRIC ban by Monaco GP.

User avatar
Cam
45
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 08:38

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

Since all this FRIC news has come out, reflection suggests Red Bull may be ahead of the curve. Austria was a disaster. But what if they were not running FRIC? 2014 is basically a lost cause, unless something dramatic happens. Knowing in Monaco that FRIC was under review and that 2015 would likely see a full ban, it could make sense to switch early. Hence Austria. Arguably a terrible and unexpected result. But if they were running without FRIC, it makes sense.

Silverstone was far better. That would have given them two full race weekends to develop non-FRIC running. Germany may not tell the whole story either, but it is something to consider.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

User avatar
Pierce89
60
Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

Is Ricciardo the better driver of the two now? I would say,resoundingly,yes. This season has made all the Vettel critics who claimed Vettel only won because of a dominant car and a weak teammate look like they weren't far off the mark. Maybe with an EBD, Vettel could beat the "Aussie Animal", but I don't think so.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

sgreer78
sgreer78
0
Joined: 26 Nov 2013, 21:14

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

Pierce89 wrote:Is Ricciardo the better driver of the two now? I would say,resoundingly,yes. This season has made all the Vettel critics who claimed Vettel only won because of a dominant car and a weak teammate look like they weren't far off the mark. Maybe with an EBD, Vettel could beat the "Aussie Animal", but I don't think so.
I don't think so. Ricciardo is the driver with the better luck. Yesterday Vettel threw any chance away at a podium with the spin, but failing to pit as soon as the SC came out is what really hurt, that on top of RB having the car in the wrong mode upon the restart. There is still half of a season to go, I wouldn't go counting anyone out of anything just yet. RB seem to make big leaps in the summer breaks, I don't see why this year would be any different.

User avatar
Pierce89
60
Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

sgreer78 wrote:
Pierce89 wrote:Is Ricciardo the better driver of the two now? I would say,resoundingly,yes. This season has made all the Vettel critics who claimed Vettel only won because of a dominant car and a weak teammate look like they weren't far off the mark. Maybe with an EBD, Vettel could beat the "Aussie Animal", but I don't think so.
I don't think so. Ricciardo is the driver with the better luck. Yesterday Vettel threw any chance away at a podium with the spin, but failing to pit as soon as the SC came out is what really hurt, that on top of RB having the car in the wrong mode upon the restart. There is still half of a season to go, I wouldn't go counting anyone out of anything just yet. RB seem to make big leaps in the summer breaks, I don't see why this year would be any different.
I'm sure Red Bull will make progress, but that's totally beside the point. Unless the progress is all aimed at Vettel, I see little indication that he can drive an rb10 as well as Ricci. In another car,who knows? In the rb10, Ricci looks better.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

User avatar
Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

Post

Ric is on average 2-3/10ts faster than vet when on comparable strategies. According to horner it's mainly down to braking and laggy PU. When those things are sorted I expect them to be much more evenly matched.
Outright pace aside, vettel certainly didn't help himself in hungary with some of the worst racing he's produced this year. Loosing positions at the start, the restart, spinning...