Parr says only eight teams next year, three car teams.

[Moxie]

Exhibit #1. There is plenty of money in F1, but that money is heavily concentrated at the front of the grid

2013 Formula 1 Prize Money

Team. 2013 Standings. Column 1. Column 2. Total

Red Bill. 1. $35M $66.5M. $101.5M
Mercedes. 2. $35M. $56M. $91M
Ferrari. 3. $35M $45.5M $80.5M
Lotus. 4. $35M $38.5M. $73.5M
McLaren . 5. $35M. $35M. $70M
Force India 6. $35M. $31.5M. $66.5M
Saucer. 7. $35M. $24.5M. $59.5M
Toro Rosso. 8. $35M. $21M. $56M
Williams. 9. $35M. $17.5. $52.5M
Marussia. 10. $0. $14M. $14M
Caterham. 11. $35M. $0. $35M
https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6025/5957 ... 3798_z.jpg



Exhibit # 2. The truth is that I don't have enough data to produce a proper study. However, I challenge anyone to watch a race with a stopwatch and record the amount of time that the leading teams cars are on the screen, vs that of the rear teams. In a single two hour broadcast Mercedes cars will be on the screen for thousands of seconds, where as Chaterham will be on the screen for less than 20 seconds (from my preliminary data). This exposure is an asset that allows the teams to give sponsors a return on investment. Negligible TV time means blank sidepods on cars which means even more financial disadvantage.

[Vettel Maggot]

The lack of sponsors on most cars is the most striking thing of recent years. Companies just don't seem to be interested anymore. If this is the case then maybe the slicing up of the prize money needs to be looked at?

[Richard]

Let's not forget that Formula 1 attracts as much money as it ever has thanks to Bernie's deals. The problem lies in the distribution.

Here's a quote from Forbes:

By bringing all of F1’s divisions under one umbrella Mr Ecclestone was able to cut a deal with the teams which gave them a share of all of the revenue sources for the first time. He handed them 47.5% of F1’s earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortisation (EBITDA) and this tempted them to stay in F1. It immediately doubled the teams’ F1 income but the payment to them also became F1’s biggest single cost. It came to $751.8 million in 2012 and has increased by 44.3% in the previous five years alone.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2014/ ... to-racing/

[Raleigh]

The lack of sponsors on most cars is the most striking thing of recent years. Companies just don't seem to be interested anymore. If this is the case then maybe the slicing up of the prize money needs to be looked at?

The trouble here is Bernie is rather keen on 3 car teams, and has said repeatedly said no one would miss the likes of Caterham...

I'm not seeing him helping the backmarker teams.

[dans79]

The trouble here is Bernie is rather keen on 3 car teams, and has said repeatedly said no one would miss the likes of Caterham...
I'm not seeing him helping the backmarker teams.

Bernie has lost his mind, as 3 car teams will make the WCC super boring, because if one team is dominant they will wrap up the championship quickly.

[Raleigh]

The trouble here is Bernie is rather keen on 3 car teams, and has said repeatedly said no one would miss the likes of Caterham...
I'm not seeing him helping the backmarker teams.

Bernie has lost his mind, as 3 car teams will make the WCC super boring, because if one team is dominant they will wrap up the championship quickly.

I'd rather keep 2 car teams, but if Bernie pushes this through one way to make it work might be to have the 3rd car as a 1 car privateer team entry...

Run entirely or partly by the works team, but not considered part of the Constructors Championship. Such a car might well end up taking points off the works team as much as anyone else.

If there was a decent competitive balance between teams having another 2-4 drivers in regular contention for podiums and wins would make for some excellent racing...

[Andres125sx]

The trouble here is Bernie is rather keen on 3 car teams, and has said repeatedly said no one would miss the likes of Caterham...
I'm not seeing him helping the backmarker teams.

Bernie has lost his mind, as 3 car teams will make the WCC super boring, because if one team is dominant they will wrap up the championship quickly.

Wich is completely different to current situation where there have been a tough fight for the WCC on last seassons....

[dans79]

Wich is completely different to current situation where there have been a tough fight for the WCC on last seassons....

I wasn't saying it wasn't bad the last two seasons, I was saying 3 cars would be worse.

[ScottB]

Exhibit #1. There is plenty of money in F1, but that money is heavily concentrated at the front of the grid

2013 Formula 1 Prize Money

Team. 2013 Standings. Column 1. Column 2. Total

Red Bill. 1. $35M $66.5M. $101.5M
Mercedes. 2. $35M. $56M. $91M
Ferrari. 3. $35M $45.5M $80.5M
Lotus. 4. $35M $38.5M. $73.5M
McLaren . 5. $35M. $35M. $70M
Force India 6. $35M. $31.5M. $66.5M
Saucer. 7. $35M. $24.5M. $59.5M
Toro Rosso. 8. $35M. $21M. $56M
Williams. 9. $35M. $17.5. $52.5M
Marussia. 10. $0. $14M. $14M
Caterham. 11. $35M. $0. $35M
https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6025/5957 ... 3798_z.jpg



Exhibit # 2. The truth is that I don't have enough data to produce a proper study. However, I challenge anyone to watch a race with a stopwatch and record the amount of time that the leading teams cars are on the screen, vs that of the rear teams. In a single two hour broadcast Mercedes cars will be on the screen for thousands of seconds, where as Chaterham will be on the screen for less than 20 seconds (from my preliminary data). This exposure is an asset that allows the teams to give sponsors a return on investment. Negligible TV time means blank sidepods on cars which means even more financial disadvantage.

Far too much money leaves the sport, to the likes of CVC.

Compare the percentages of commercial income F1 teams get with, for example, English Premiership sides.

[Moxie]

It is not about how much money CVC, or Bernie widraws from the sport. That could be a factor, but there are bigger issues to address....MUCH BIGGER!

My constant griping about the distribution of wealth, namely prize money and TV exposure, is not rooted in some deep seated socialist agenda...Quite the opposite, in fact. Bernie Eccelstone is the producer of a show, and the teams are the performers. In this particular kind of show, it is imperative that there are more than four performers, or the show will become very uninteresting, and the audience will seek more fulfilling entertainment. After all it is all about the eyeballs, because while Bernie sells entertainment, his customers sell advertising, and if his customers aren't attracting eyeballs then Ringmaster Bernie and his F1 circus have a major problem.

THIS SHOW IS A RACE!!! IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A COMPETITION!!! To keep the performers in this particular show, they must be paid enough to actually compete at some reasonable level. There must be some level of unpredictability and suspense regarding which team will win. Without competition F1 has become an expensive and boring waste of time.

Teams dropping out of F1 and three car teams are exactly the opposite of what F1 needs, but Bernie is too stubborn to see it, or he has ulterior motives, and the survival of F1 is not a primary concern.

[xpensive]

Perhaps they are looking the wrong way, allowing one car teams is the way to go?

[Richard]

Teams dropping out of F1 and three car teams are exactly the opposite of what F1 needs, but Bernie is too stubborn to see it, or he has ulterior motives, and the survival of F1 is not a primary concern.

Bernie isn't stupid. It appears that he expects the benefits of fewer teams with 3 cars outweighs the benefits of accommodating the likes of Caterham and Marussia. I can also see that it'll suit his Machiavellian tendency to deal with fewer teams.

It'll move F1 closer to an oligopoly and that's the ideal corporate model. Those on the inside are able to maximise their benefits thanks to a manipulated market that leaves the consumer with no choice. It's the best move for Bernie and the big teams.

[xpensive]

Teams dropping out of F1 and three car teams are exactly the opposite of what F1 needs, but Bernie is too stubborn to see it, or he has ulterior motives, and the survival of F1 is not a primary concern.

Bernie isn't stupid. It appears that he expects the benefits of fewer teams with 3 cars outweighs the benefits of accommodating the likes of Caterham and Marussia. I can also see that it'll suit his Machiavellian tendency to deal with fewer teams.

It'll move F1 closer to an oligopoly and that's the ideal corporate model. Those on the inside are able to maximise their benefits thanks to a manipulated market that leaves the consumer with no choice. It's the best move for Bernie and the big teams.

I'm sorry moderator, but I don't have a clue of what you are trying to communicate here.

[Richard]

Fewer teams = a sport that is easier to manipulate = more power for Bernie.

Or if you prefer to see it mathematically:

[FoxHound]

Caterham and Marussia are at Bernie's beck and call anyhow. So them participating or not is irrelevant in power terms.