Horsepower of the engines.

[PlatinumZealot]

50% thermal efficiency would mean 830hp....

And if that is without the MGUK, the total would be 990hp!!!!

The 50% is with Battery assist. Without battery assist is about 40 to 42%. I think they are aiming for 50% self sustaining though.

[wuzak]

50% thermal efficiency would mean 830hp....

And if that is without the MGUK, the total would be 990hp!!!!

The 50% is with Battery assist. Without battery assist is about 40 to 42%. I think they are aiming for 50% self sustaining though.

As I said before, ES cannot be used in efficiency calculations. And I doubt that Mercedes do so.

[wuzak]

I'd also think that the 50% efficiency is with self sustaining mode, and is available now.

[Blackout]

Could you explain again what everybody means with ''self-sustaining mode" here?
AFAIK Cowell said:
V6 turbo with no ERS = V8 with no Kers = 750hp
V6 +ERS = 750 + 80 + 10% = 913hp
750hp (v6 alone) = 45,1%

[ME4ME]

Remember these journalist, although sometimes well informed, selfdom have much technical knowledge, and misunderstandings often happen. While James Allen talks about 50 % TE, Motorsport.com reports 45 %.

To me 45 % in 2015 makes much more sense. If 100 kg/h gives a maximum of 1240 kW as stated by Andy Cowell, then that's 1660 HP of potential from the fuel. 45 % is about 750 HP form the ICE. Add 160 HP MU-K and you get a total of 910 HP. This is what has been said all along in 2015. Martin Brundle, altough no engineer himself is well informed and has on several occations (Singapore etc) said "well above 900 HP".

Also Renault recently stating they had 850 HP in 2015 (and aiming for 875 at Melbourne) makes a lot of sense. Red Bull and Toro Rosso have often indicated having to cope with a deficit of at least 60 HP. Mercedes has also stated the V6 Hybrid is matching the old V10's.

So as it is, I think Mercedes had 910, and will add a further few before Melbourne. I think 925 HP is a realistic number, with further development still to come in-season.

[Petroltorque]

There seems to be too much confusion. These PUS only have on source of energy ; supplied fuel. That is limited to 100kg. If the miracle efficiency of 50% is achieved from 100kg fuel that is 830bhp. You can't then simply add the 160bhp from the ERS because where will that energy come from, the local nuclear power plant? Once you have extracted the energy from the fuel that is your lot.
The trick seems to be extracting as much power from th ICE / TURBINE / MGU-HEAT since that efficiency is driving performance. You can apply peak boost from the batteries but even that stored energy has to come from the fuel.

[OO7]

Could you explain again what everybody means with ''self-sustaining mode" here?
AFAIK Cowell said:
V6 turbo with no ERS = V8 with no Kers = 750hp
V6 +ERS = 750 + 80 + 10% = 913hp
750hp (v6 alone) = 45,1% but 913hp = 54%

Cosworth apparently released information on their V6T which showed that of the 160hp the ERS is capable of generating, 100hp was in self-sustain mode from the MGU-H.

So using your figures:
750hp (V6T alone) = 45.1%
850hp (V6T + MGU-H SS mode) = ?

If Cosworth are able to get 100hp from the MGU-H in SS mode, it isn't unreasonable to believe Mercedes could probably eke out a little bit more.

[Petroltorque]

V6T power output alone is 610bhp. The nexus of the Mercedes performance is the ERS-H. It's technology that harvests energy from the compressor/ turbo and feeds the ICE with an additional 60bhp. Th ERS Kinetic is worth 160 bhp. So total output Is 830bhp. It's the way Merc manage the software that helps them maintain peek output fo longer.
I can't take credit for this as it was explained by an motor engineer working on the unit. 900bhp as he put it is pure fantasy.

[OO7]

V6T power output alone is 610bhp. The nexus of the Mercedes performance is the ERS-H. It's technology that harvests energy from the compressor/ turbo and feeds the ICE with an additional 60bhp. Th ERS Kinetic is worth 160 bhp. So total output Is 830bhp. It's the way Merc manage the software that helps them maintain peek output fo longer.
I can't take credit for this as it was explained by an motor engineer working on the unit. 900bhp as he put it is pure fantasy.

How does the MGU-H feed the ICE with more power?

My understanding is that the MGU-H can send energy to the battery and or send energy directly to the MGU-K.

[Petroltorque]

He did not explain how they extract the extra bhp from th ERS-H but hinted it's clever software. He's not going to reveal th company secrets.

[livinglikethathuh]

Corner by corner mapping may be where it's at. The car can locate itself on the track, even without GPS, by counting and maybe measuring the length of the braking events. The system may call for maximum MGU-H harvesting, amount of -K deployment at corner exit, and management of the power produced by -H at long straights. Deploy it all? Discharge/recharge ES? I think Merc can gain laptimes by not deploying on long straights that have hard braking zones at the end, or may harvest at max power at sweeping corners taken at part throttle.

On another note, it's IMO very logical to calculate efficiency for the PU's self sustaining mode, as the MGU-K is sourcing power directly from the exhaust, which carries energy from the burnt fuel.

[wuzak]

He did not explain how they extract the extra bhp from th ERS-H but hinted it's clever software. He's not going to reveal th company secrets.

He can't explain it because it is not allowed.

[ME4ME]

There seems to be too much confusion. These PUS only have on source of energy ; supplied fuel. That is limited to 100kg. If the miracle efficiency of 50% is achieved from 100kg fuel that is 830bhp. You can't then simply add the 160bhp from the ERS because where will that energy come from, the local nuclear power plant? Once you have extracted the energy from the fuel that is your lot.
The trick seems to be extracting as much power from th ICE / TURBINE / MGU-HEAT since that efficiency is driving performance. You can apply peak boost from the batteries but even that stored energy has to come from the fuel.

V6T power output alone is 610bhp. The nexus of the Mercedes performance is the ERS-H. It's technology that harvests energy from the compressor/ turbo and feeds the ICE with an additional 60bhp. Th ERS Kinetic is worth 160 bhp. So total output Is 830bhp. It's the way Merc manage the software that helps them maintain peek output fo longer.
I can't take credit for this as it was explained by an motor engineer working on the unit. 900bhp as he put it is pure fantasy.

I think the confusion is very much of your own making. You should start distinguishing fuel budget and fuel flow rate. Also the MGU-H cannot magically give 60 HP to the engine. Its electric energy is either stored in the battery or transfered to the MGU-K. "60+160" electric power is nonesense.

[Petroltorque]

The formula for the PU output is ICE + ERS-H + ERS-K thus 610 + 60 + 160 respectively.

[wuzak]

The formula for the PU output is ICE + ERS-H + ERS-K thus 610 + 60 + 160 respectively.

No, you are very much mistaken.

5.2.1 The use of any device, other than the engine described in 5.1 above, and one MGU-K, to propel the car, is not permitted.

And the MGUK is limited to 120kW (~160hp).

The only mechanism for the MGUH to drive the car is through the MGUK.