Renault V6 Power Unit

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:59 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
wuzak wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:
I thought FW17 was implying using the stored air pressure to boost the engine through the compressor inlet so i was never thinking of conversion to electrical energy. So the system would be separate from the ERS. Basically a cheat system.
I think that is not allowed:

5.1.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a shaft assembly parallel to the engine crankshaft and within 25mm of the car centre line. The shaft must be designed so as to ensure that the shaft assembly, the compressor and the turbine always rotate about a common axis and at the same angular velocity, an electrical motor generator (MGU-H) may be directly coupled to it. The shaft may not be mechanically linked to any other device.
You could have a second "booster" turbine connected to the compressor shaft that uses the accumulated air pressure to spin up the compressor. It would not be piped to the main air stream but simply blows thru this booster turbine to atmosphere.

Almost like flywheel kers to the compressor except it is accumulated air pressure. In fact.. It probably more efficcient to use the compressed air to spin up a flywheel in one shot without accumulation tank then directly apply that flywheel to spin up the compressor shaft.

I dont the rules say you are forbidden from spinning up the compressor with other energy sources did it? ;-)
The rules say something to the effect of only the MGU-H may be mechanically linked to the turbine, and the compressor must be single stage. The MGU-H must be mechanically connected by fixed clutchable gear to the turbine and nothing else. The only freebie is the MGU-K, which can receive power from the H, from the engine crank and from engine ancillaries. The engine ancillaries are unlimited in energy transfer from engine to ancillary but from ancillary to K and from K to ancillary it's limited to 120kW.
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wuzak
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by wuzak » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:33 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:You could have a second "booster" turbine connected to the compressor shaft that uses the accumulated air pressure to spin up the compressor. It would not be piped to the main air stream but simply blows thru this booster turbine to atmosphere.

Almost like flywheel kers to the compressor except it is accumulated air pressure. In fact.. It probably more efficcient to use the compressed air to spin up a flywheel in one shot without accumulation tank then directly apply that flywheel to spin up the compressor shaft.

I dont the rules say you are forbidden from spinning up the compressor with other energy sources did it? ;-)
Yes, I believe it does.

5.1.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a shaft assembly parallel to the engine crankshaft and within 25mm of the car centre line. The shaft must be designed so as to ensure that the shaft assembly, the compressor and the turbine always rotate about a common axis and at the same angular velocity, an electrical motor generator (MGU-H) may be directly coupled to it. The shaft may not be mechanically linked to any other device.

Even if it doesn't, it will be of limited use as you can only store 300kJ and you can only use/recover 20kJ of that at greater than 2kW.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:59 pm

Thanks.
Damn.
Rules too tight!
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Vladimir
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Vladimir » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:23 pm

Speaking to German publication Auto Motor und Sport, Renault chief Cyril Abiteboul stated: "Renault's power unit has been developed for BP and Castrol, our partner.

"But we have made sure that the engine will also work with Exxon Mobil's fuel and oil, for Red Bull and Toro Rosso – there is no extra work [needed] in the development.

"Renault's engine will be the same for all three teams."

Will it be :roll: ?
If we all know example of Mercedes PU, which operate in full mode only with Petronas lubricants and fuel.

ME4ME
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by ME4ME » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:40 pm

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analy ... le-872201/

Great article on the matter, with some interesting quotes. Maybe if Renault allow Mobil1 enough dyno time, this will actually benefit both RB+TR ánd Renault.

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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by PlatinumZealot » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:10 am

I am starting to believe. It is all marketing.

Supposedly...

Exxon mobil was weak when they were with McLaren Mercedes.

Total was total crap with Renult!

Petronas was the best! in the works Mercedes!

Shell Ferrari was in the middle.. Sorta good.. Bust sorta "knockie"

Now Honda drops crap Exxon and goes for BP castrol.

Red Bull drops "total crap Total" and picks up "crap Exxon" who is suddenly greeaaat! (or not, see below)

Renault drops "crap Total" and picks up BP which is supposed to be better than Exxon. Meaning RedBull stupidly chose the weakest fuel available?

Really now...

Ha. It is all marketing I tell yah!
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Vladimir
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Vladimir » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:06 am

Yes, almost everything in F1 is about marketing.
But, will this change of lubricant supplier for same PU be the excuse for differences in performace?
I think that all oil brend are more or less the same.Maybe fuel make difference more.

seezung
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by seezung » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:10 pm


Vladimir
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Vladimir » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:25 pm

Nice video, but not so clear sound.This is not first time fire up, for sure.The same sound was in Torro Rosso video. If it is first fire up,that may be good sign,because they rev it without problems and prevenitv shout down for checking.Listen Honda video.

Blackout
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Blackout » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:09 am

I wonder why Renault kept using a single entry turbine since 2014 while everybody else used a dual entry one?
AFAIK the latter has many advantages (more efficient, faster spool up?)
What advantages the former has?
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Mudflap
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Mudflap » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:41 pm

a twin entry turbine produces a second order excitation of the turbine wheel - not good if you have big flappy blades. By removing one entry you halve the excitation frequency.

was this the reason they used a single entry ? Nah dont think so ^^
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hemichromis
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by hemichromis » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:04 pm


F1NAC
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by F1NAC » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:34 pm

From scarbs twitter
Remi Taffin "We have no plans to go down the split turbo route"

hemichromis
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by hemichromis » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:46 pm

F1NAC wrote:From scarbs twitter
Remi Taffin "We have no plans to go down the split turbo route"
Wow, I'd love to see what they've changed if not that. They have been indicating a big change for a while so I am surprised.

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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by F1NAC » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:23 pm

hemichromis wrote:
F1NAC wrote:From scarbs twitter
Remi Taffin "We have no plans to go down the split turbo route"
Wow, I'd love to see what they've changed if not that. They have been indicating a big change for a while so I am surprised.
Motorsport.com is reporting that 95% of new engine is different from 2016 one



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