2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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marvin78
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by marvin78 » Fri May 19, 2017 1:05 pm

That's a hell of an argument....

GoranF1
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by GoranF1 » Fri May 19, 2017 1:14 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:05 pm
That's a hell of an argument....
What about 1.5 sec difference in BCN quali whit no reliability problems for Vandoorne?
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

diffuser
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by diffuser » Fri May 19, 2017 1:21 pm

I think Monoco is a lost opportunity for McLaren to prove they have the 3ird best chassis. I do agree that without ALO at Monoco there is nobody there to exploit the max from the car. I agree Button will be rusty (he still wasn't at ALO Level). There is plenty of evidence that shows Vandoorne has alot of work to do to fill even Button's shoes.

Oh and don't forget the Grid penalty.

marvin78
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by marvin78 » Fri May 19, 2017 1:40 pm

GoranF1 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:14 pm
marvin78 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:05 pm
That's a hell of an argument....
What about 1.5 sec difference in BCN quali whit no reliability problems for Vandoorne?
I don't like comparison. You NEVER know, what's going on. Comparison between driver is a thing for fanboys. I'm not a fan of any driver (I don't understand how one can be fan of another one. That's a concept I don't understand). So I am more relaxed on racedays. Perhaps I even see things different. What I don't see, is that you could compare a driver with multiple years of F1 experience with a newbee. That's ridiculous.

GoranF1
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by GoranF1 » Fri May 19, 2017 1:54 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:40 pm
GoranF1 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:14 pm
marvin78 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:05 pm
That's a hell of an argument....
What about 1.5 sec difference in BCN quali whit no reliability problems for Vandoorne?
I don't like comparison. You NEVER know, what's going on. Comparison between driver is a thing for fanboys. I'm not a fan of any driver (I don't understand how one can be fan of another one. That's a concept I don't understand). So I am more relaxed on racedays. Perhaps I even see things different. What I don't see, is that you could compare a driver with multiple years of F1 experience with a newbee. That's ridiculous.
i disagree on your points of view 100%
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

kaepernickus
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by kaepernickus » Fri May 19, 2017 1:56 pm

GoranF1 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:14 pm
What about 1.5 sec difference in BCN quali whit no reliability problems for Vandoorne?
Remember that one race where Alonso got out-qualified by Hamilton/Button/... with a difference of x.x seconds.
They have to be on a much higher level compared to Alonso.

That's not an argument at all...

GoranF1
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by GoranF1 » Fri May 19, 2017 2:01 pm

kaepernickus wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:56 pm
GoranF1 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:14 pm
What about 1.5 sec difference in BCN quali whit no reliability problems for Vandoorne?
Remember that one race where Alonso got out-qualified by Hamilton/Button/... with a difference of x.x seconds.
They have to be on a much higher level compared to Alonso.

That's not an argument at all...
ok...that 1 race, but ATM it is 5-0 for Alonso vs VAN, yes its stil early and there was reliability problems but by the end of year what will happen?
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

etusch
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by etusch » Fri May 19, 2017 2:38 pm

GoranF1 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 9:29 am
Alonso Fan wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 8:25 am
etusch wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 7:36 am
I wonder that can we see mclaren as third fastest at monaco. A feeling say that 1 Redbull or ferrari third mclaren and 4th merc
I think they'll be p7 and below. Realistically they cannot match the top 3 teams even at Monaco. Last year they just barely did it
No way.....what you are saying would be the case whit Alonso on board.
Button will be rusty and Vandoorne is just not the level of Alonso(despite his junior record)
After Monaco i am afraid people will bash the Mclaren chassis allthough whit Alonso it would be clear best of the rest in MC.
If Button will do a good lap like P7-P8 and Vandoorne can't, we can say that Mclaren chassis is in realy good condition and Vandoorne must work much more harder. Next year Mclaren can send Vandoorne to sauber as team mate of mutsushita ( I could be write wrong ) and Alo-But team again at Mclaren.

ftft
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by ftft » Fri May 19, 2017 4:08 pm

Vandoorne is a talented driver, but he's having some difficulty adapting his 'feeder series'-driving style to the car.
Stoffel's very late on the brakes, and keeps his foot slightly on the brakes when already in a corner (ALO is already fully of the brakes at that time).

The fact that the car was tailored around Alonso doesn't make things easier. Alonso usually attacks a corner with a lot of initial steering lock, so he tends to brake a little bit earlier than most F1-drivers by default.

Give him some time.

Alonso Fan
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Alonso Fan » Fri May 19, 2017 6:55 pm

ftft wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 4:08 pm
Vandoorne is a talented driver, but he's having some difficulty adapting his 'feeder series'-driving style to the car.
Stoffel's very late on the brakes, and keeps his foot slightly on the brakes when already in a corner (ALO is already fully of the brakes at that time).

The fact that the car was tailored around Alonso doesn't make things easier. Alonso usually attacks a corner with a lot of initial steering lock, so he tends to brake a little bit earlier than most F1-drivers by default.

Give him some time.
I thought he braked later? that's what other driver say
MVRC - SHM Racing

ftft
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by ftft » Fri May 19, 2017 7:56 pm

Alonso Fan wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 6:55 pm
ftft wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 4:08 pm
Vandoorne is a talented driver, but he's having some difficulty adapting his 'feeder series'-driving style to the car.
Stoffel's very late on the brakes, and keeps his foot slightly on the brakes when already in a corner (ALO is already fully of the brakes at that time).

The fact that the car was tailored around Alonso doesn't make things easier. Alonso usually attacks a corner with a lot of initial steering lock, so he tends to brake a little bit earlier than most F1-drivers by default.

Give him some time.
I thought he braked later? that's what other driver say
Depends who you compare to, and not always easy to judge without the full telemetry data - but Lewis for example brakes a lot later than Fernando.

etusch
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by etusch » Fri May 19, 2017 8:00 pm

ftft wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 7:56 pm
Alonso Fan wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 6:55 pm
ftft wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 4:08 pm
Vandoorne is a talented driver, but he's having some difficulty adapting his 'feeder series'-driving style to the car.
Stoffel's very late on the brakes, and keeps his foot slightly on the brakes when already in a corner (ALO is already fully of the brakes at that time).

The fact that the car was tailored around Alonso doesn't make things easier. Alonso usually attacks a corner with a lot of initial steering lock, so he tends to brake a little bit earlier than most F1-drivers by default.

Give him some time.
I thought he braked later? that's what other driver say
Depends who you compare to, and not always easy to judge without the full telemetry data - but Lewis for example brakes a lot later than Fernando.
This also tide how good the car's brakes and they have to gain times.

Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Andres125sx » Sat May 20, 2017 11:41 am

marvin78 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:40 pm
Comparison between driver is a thing for fanboys.
Agree about the comparison between drivers, but disagree about the comparison between teammates, that´s the only real comparison between drivers in F1 wich makes sense, and even the teams compare their drivers perfomances :wink:

etusch
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by etusch » Sat May 20, 2017 12:39 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Sat May 20, 2017 11:41 am
marvin78 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 1:40 pm
Comparison between driver is a thing for fanboys.
Agree about the comparison between drivers, but disagree about the comparison between teammates, that´s the only real comparison between drivers in F1 wich makes sense, and even the teams compare their drivers perfomances :wink:
Agree with a question mark. How a team interest with a driver ( which is number one for the team ) makes things easy for him with the car and if team don't care so much ( that is not as much as no 1 ) other driver ( no 2 ) he could be a bit unsuccesful with the car. And WDC is everytime more important for everyone.

Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Andres125sx » Sat May 20, 2017 4:20 pm

Off course, but all F1 drivers have had to cope with that, as all of them were rookies at some point.

Difference is some manage to make a good job even with a car wich is not designed for them, while others are not able to make a good job and never earn the privilege of a car designed for his driving style.

And then there´s the luck. When some driver is unlucky enough to be a teammate of a top driver his career will be much more difficult (Vandoorne with Alonso or Sainz with Verstappen) compared to some other whose teammate is not that good so he can shine much easier (for example Stroll with Massa or Wehrlein with Ericsson)


Anycase first evaluation parameter for any F1 driver is always the comparison with his teammate



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