2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

[GPR-A duplicate2]

So, if this is true that Ferrari are guilty of oil burn and are stand to lose the most, then it is impossible to pose a threat to Mercedes in qualifying. If they don't find performance gains on PU immediately to negate the impact of the latest directive, they will be nowhere in races on circuits where overtaking is difficult. With Mercedes making in roads on tyre usage, it would be double difficult for Ferrari to fight for Championship.

[giantfan10]

So, if this is true that Ferrari are guilty of oil burn and are stand to lose the most, then it is impossible to pose a threat to Mercedes in qualifying. If they don't find performance gains on PU immediately to negate the impact of the latest directive, they will be nowhere in races on circuits where overtaking is difficult. With Mercedes making in roads on tyre usage, it would be double difficult for Ferrari to fight for Championship.

Thats a big IF ...think reverting to an old worn out engine have anything to do with the deficit to Mercedes right when Mercedes did an engine upgrade?..im thinking thats what the issue is instead guessing about who the oil burning directive targeted......Horner said it was Mercedes when he first pointed it out.... now its Ferrari when they falter in qualifying...smh

[giantfan10]

Ferrari slowly dropping to 2016 levels, they were lucky that Max made a mistake. Red Bull's chassis is already better at the moment.

Based on what exactly? Last time i checked Max and red bull lineup behind Ferrari on the starting grid...
Kimi was being kimi as usual underachieving and Vettel was using the PU spec they used in Australia...how does this translate to red bull having a better chassis? Because max and horner are doing the usual spin nonsense they do as soon as it looks like their car is competitive?

[timbo]

And lo and behold we see the largest qualifying gap I believe we've seen all year.

I find it hard to believe it's all due to oil. 1 second gap is usually estimated to be due to 80-100 hp deficit, even if it's 50 hp only, how much oil must one burn to get this much difference? And it does not look like they suddenly slowed down in Q3, they were just generally not on the pace. I think it is setup problems at the core and any changes they had to make with the engine only exaggerated it.

[Xwang]

I'm wondering since FIA has already said that at the moment it is not able to control the use of the oil (it is studying new rules for 2018), why should they stop using it (it they use it and if it gives them more power)?
This TD seems to me only a statement, but how can FIA technical delegates and circuit officials check if someone use oil in such a way?
If they could they would already disqualified someone.

[Phil]

Thats a big IF ...think reverting to an old worn out engine have anything to do with the deficit to Mercedes right when Mercedes did an engine upgrade?..im thinking thats what the issue is instead guessing about who the oil burning directive targeted......Horner said it was Mercedes when he first pointed it out.... now its Ferrari when they falter in qualifying...smh

The story goes a bit different.

From AMuS:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 08261.html

Ein weiterer Grund für das Erinnerungsschreiben ist eine Nachfrage von Mercedes beim Verband. Die hatten kürzlich Wind von einem zusätzlichen Öltank im Ferrari bekommen. Der war allerdings schon seit Beginn des Jahres installiert. Plötzlich bekam eine Anfrage von Ferrari bei der FIA im vergangenen Winter neues Gewicht. Dort wollten die Italiener wissen, ob es für die Zusammensetzung von Öl genau wie beim Kraftstoff genaue Regeln gebe und ob man zwei unterschiedliche Öle verwenden dürfe.
Bei Mercedes reifte nun der Verdacht, Ferrari könnte in einem der Tanks ein spezielles Öl lagern, dass ausschließlich bei Qualifikationsrunden als Verbrennungshilfe genutzt wird. Das könnte die Leistung kurzfristig signifikant steigern. Zwei Zehntel Zeitgewinn sind denkbar. Der Argwohn bekam neue Nahrung, nachdem GPS-Messungen in Montreal ergeben hatten, dass Ferrari bei voller Power Zeit auf den Geraden auf Mercedes gewinnt. Was vorher noch nie der Fall war.

Roughly translated:

The reason for the new clarification and directive is an inquiry by Mercedes. They recently got wind that Ferrari has a second oil tank in the car. This oil tank however was already in the car since the start of the season.

This sheds some light on a similar inquiry Ferrari placed to the FIA last winter. In this inquiry, the Italians wanted to know, if there were new rules regarding the composition of the oil like with fuel and if two different oil specifications could be used.

Mercedes now had the suspicion that Ferrari could be using the second oil tank for a special oil that is used to enhance the performance during qualifying as discussed in this topic. This could increase the performance significantly, 2 tenths would be absolutely achievable. This thesis became even more weight after GPS data showed that Ferrari was gaining on Mercedes on the straights in Montreal, which was never the case earlier.

[Vasconia]

I think we must wait until Austria to be sure that his new clarificaction is affecting Ferrari more than others.

Anyway, if Vettel ws driving with an old engine, it should be some room to be hopeful, isn´t it? the Ferrari should have more performance running with the latest PU.

Are updates expected for Austria?

[ripper]

I think that, for Vettel, they will try to fix ICE number 2 and use it because it should last two more races. I don't remember about RAI's allocations, in Italy there were some rumors about new PU/ICE with more hp, but there isn't any confirmation

[ME4ME]

Didnt seem like there was much wrong with Vettels 2nd PU. I think it was mostly for practical reasons that they change to PU nr1. They just need some time to thoroughly inspect nr2 which they werent able to between fp3 and Q.

[Manoah2u]

I don't think there's too much to read into the actual Ferrari engine yet.
Obviously the first question should be what evidence there is they changed that second oil thing at all.

I personally see it more in the sense that Mercedes has upped their game after getting a bit lazy after last seasons, and having bettered their tactics and setups and re-mastered their tire issues.
Whilst also, Bottas is getting more comfortable in the car, and Hamilton has upped his game too, and getting more confident and racy.

All the while, Ferrari is known for quickly 'relaxing too much' when they think they're on top, Raikkonen getting more and more clumsy (let's face it, he can do much better than this) and having more trouble with finding balance compared to the immediate start of the season, likewise Vettel, and Vettel getting under much more pressure, which he seemingly has more trouble dealing with (remember crybaby status and last years screaming to Charlie and his team).

I think it's more a case of both Mercedes and Hamilton getting more effort from themselves and improving,
whilst Ferrari and Vettel have been getting down a bit on their game.

which would ultimately mean that if Ferrari gets back on their game, and Vettel calming down and focusing, then this 'drop' will disappear completely, especially if Lewis is having a bad weekend for some reason.

Then again, i find it odd that the FIA decides not to DSQ vettel because they're afraid it would impact the championship battle this early in the year, if they aren't suspicious that Ferrari is going to drop bit after bit.

[Phil]

It wasnt the FIA that decided anything, but the 3 stewards designated for the race at Baku?

I wouldnt draw conclusions of the decisions made at the race to the overall complexity of the entire FIA organization...

[Vasconia]

I think it's more a case of both Mercedes and Hamilton getting more effort from themselves and improving,
whilst Ferrari and Vettel have been getting down a bit on their game.

which would ultimately mean that if Ferrari gets back on their game, and Vettel calming down and focusing, then this 'drop' will disappear completely, especially if Lewis is having a bad weekend for some reason.

My biggest doubt is if Ferrari can make an step forward to keep fighting Mercedes now that they seem to understand better the tyres. If not, this could like the second half of 2012´s season.

I have no doubts with Vettel. Even after the collision with Hamilton his peformance and pace in the last part of the race was great. He obviously needs to calm down a Little bit, though.

[GoranF1]

Monaco aside it seem Ferrari has been on small decline in form since the start of year while it is opposite for the Mercs.

Just a tought i could be wrong.

[Manoah2u]

Not so sure to put Monaco aside - they benefitted enormeously from Hamilton's disastrous qualification horror.

Vettel is formidable when he's got his mind in good order.
It's really embarrasing to see him act like this, he is and should be better than this.
IMHO, it shows that he's got nothing like Alonso's patience, or the great Schumacher's patience for that matter,
which ultimately could be his achillesheel - and could cost both him and Ferrari the championship, as both Nico Rosberg AND his father
have shown, you don't always have to win to become WDC.
Consistency and stability is equally as important.

And above all, focus. I was thoroughly surprised by the first restart behind the safety car, where he lost his place to the Force India.
That was a magnificient move, really, but you could see he immediately got frustrated there, well done by him to take that place back so fast though,
he needed to.

Then he was way too jumpy on the second restart, which cost him much more.
I must say, i get that same feeling from Raikkonen too for that matter. I don't see much left from 'the iceman' on the track, he's also much more vocal about
displeasements, which makes me wonder how much pressure is being mounted to them behind the scenes.

Hamilton will make a mistake this year, and Vettel must be there to thrive on that if Ferrari isn't able to beat them in a straight fight anymore.
RedBull is also breathing in their neck, and Force India is really starting to get to another level alltogether.

I wonder how much development is left for the Ferrari in comparison to the Mercedes additionally.

[Steven]

The Baku HAM-VET incident thread was reopened, and posts regarding further possible penalties were moved there
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26540&p=704329#p704329