Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

Sounds good, and they still have half season to improve and maturing their concept.

If it's not already been designed, you're unlikely to see any new development bits this season.

I think people on here tend to underestimate the amount of time/work needed to bring developments to these PUs through manufacturing and testing.

6-7 months to implement any meaningful change.

[godlameroso]

Long shot but a possibility, and at any rate something to think about...

Crank dynamics can be affected by driveline resonances (driveline is shafts, gears, etc. downstream of engine). The driveline in an F1 car (mostly the transmission) will have its various vibration modes. An engine dyno will have a different driveline (coupling shaft) with different vibration modes. I've seen cases in production engines where different dynos will yield radically different crank torsional vibrations. At first nobody believes the dynos could cause the difference. Eventually, when all other possibilities are eliminated, it is determined that both dynos are accurate, but the different coupling shafts between engine and dyno have different resonant freqs due to different lengths, diameters, etc. If one shaft hits an engine resonance it goes bad quickly. Same engine was silky smooth on a different dyno (different coupling shaft).

Not a long-shot anymore. Hasegawa-san confirms this problem in Honda's Mea Culpa. See link in post above or link here-http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... 7-troubles

I've said the same thing since the engine was first fired up... Of course I was still full of hope then, somewhere in the back of my mind I should have known better.

[godlameroso]

How does FIA verify if Spec 1 or 2 or 3 engine was used by Honda at this test? Unless its a visual change, could Honda have tested a spec 4 engine in this test without getting caught?

Impossible to test something that doesn't exist, and it's not allowed by the regulations in any case. I'm sure by now Honda have modified their dyno to match the chassis harmonics so that this will no longer be an issue. You can't do good engineering unless you first have good validation practices. GMP's make or break you.

[etusch]

Sounds good, and they still have half season to improve and maturing their concept.

If it's not already been designed, you're unlikely to see any new development bits this season.

I think people on here tend to underestimate the amount of time/work needed to bring developments to these PUs through manufacturing and testing.

6-7 months to implement any meaningful change.

I hope we can see spec 4 second half of this season with good performance. This will sure us they will start next season at least spec 5 ( it will be named different, I said this because of same architecture)

[Singabule]

Honda excuses:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... ed-933217/

Yes, but good knowledge for us as an ordinary f1 fans in technical point of view. Hasegawa openness would make great environment in between f1 secrecy. You must admit that since Hasegawa at helm, more and more people talks technical (and bashing honda, someone has to be bullied right?)

[nzjrs]

Honda excuses:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... ed-933217/

Honda to stick with current power unit concept next year

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/201 ... cial_GC_FB

Oh bollocks. This is just re-writing the article that was on the Honda website which I posted a few days ago. Like the dog on the merry-go-round, around around we go again.

[godlameroso]

Information is slow, and limited, so naturally journalists will make 5 stories out of a few lines of official text. It keeps us talking about it, so they're not doing a bad job.

[diffuser]

I keep think about this Youtube Video where someone person in Japan is performing a test to see if he pretends to lose his wallet how many times will it be returned. I think he did the test 25 times and 25 times it was returned and contents hadn't been altered. All that to say I tend to take Hasegawa at his word.

They started a very ambitious project last year(completely new PU in 6 months) and made alot of mistakes. Based on our 2016 experience we know the 2018 will be much more reliable than 2017 and more power.

[restless]

Sounds good, and they still have half season to improve and maturing their concept.

If it's not already been designed, you're unlikely to see any new development bits this season.

I think people on here tend to underestimate the amount of time/work needed to bring developments to these PUs through manufacturing and testing.

5 months ago Wazari wrote here that Honda is changing direction and he expects results to be seen in 5-6 months
At same time were the news for Simmon going out, so there is hope for step-up at August-September

[Craigy]

Sounds good, and they still have half season to improve and maturing their concept.

If it's not already been designed, you're unlikely to see any new development bits this season.

I think people on here tend to underestimate the amount of time/work needed to bring developments to these PUs through manufacturing and testing.

5 months ago Wazari wrote here that Honda is changing direction and he expects results to be seen in 5-6 months
At same time were the news for Simmon going out, so there is hope for step-up at August-September

That'd be nice.

My point was that there are only 124 days left before the Friday of the last event of the season in Abu Dhabi - consequently stuff being designed today isn't for this season, it's development for the future - for next season.

Remaining developments meant for this season have in all likelihood been designed already -- and are in the test/development/manufacturing cycle now.

Small or really simple changes may yet be developed, but those won't likely be performance related in terms of power or efficiency - more likely just weight or heat rejection/changes of materials, that sort of thing. Simpler stuff.

[ziggy]

I keep think about this Youtube Video where someone person in Japan is performing a test to see if he pretends to lose his wallet how many times will it be returned. I think he did the test 25 times and 25 times it was returned and contents hadn't been altered. All that to say I tend to take Hasegawa at his word.

They started a very ambitious project last year(completely new PU in 6 months) and made alot of mistakes. Based on our 2016 experience we know the 2018 will be much more reliable than 2017 and more power.

Did you miss the part where Hasegawa states in between the lines tha honda still doesen't have a "full car dyno"?

[Chicane]

There is one big ICE update for Mexico according to rumor mills which is already on the dyno, around 30hp plus. Naturally to vet this PU for potential reliability issues will take at least a couple of months.

[fellowhoodlums]

It's pretty much on record there is an update Sept/Oct. Mexico is last race in that timeline but I would have thought 3rd last race is pretty late to aim for. I am thinking Suzuka is the target for obvious reasons, perhaps Malaysia for it's first run out in FP.

On a technical note, what's the differences between spec2 and 3 then 3 and 4? I was under impression spec 3 was purely core reliability (allowing full exploitation of existing PU, ie more power output). Is spec 4 the pre-chamber stuff? I'm not technical but interested.

[loner]

It's pretty much on record there is an update Sept/Oct. Mexico is last race in that timeline but I would have thought 3rd last race is pretty late to aim for. I am thinking Suzuka is the target for obvious reasons, perhaps Malaysia for it's first run out in FP.

On a technical note, what's the differences between spec2 and 3 then 3 and 4? I was under impression spec 3 was purely core reliability (allowing full exploitation of existing PU, ie more power output). Is spec 4 the pre-chamber stuff? I'm not technical but interested.

last year Honda gave date to Mobil 1 to introduce the pre-chamber in the Malaysian gp but they didn't coz they needed to change the layout and exploit more potentials from the pistons and cams profiles for the new layout Mobil 1 couldn't be patience and chosed the hype with RBR however mercs and Ferrari indeed took bigger steps power wise than Renault for 2017 PU.
to introduce the pre-chamber you need to iron all bugs in the new layout and make it bullet proof
IMHO Mexican gp will be late and the surface of circuit above sea not a good point for the new PU , I'd bet on Suzuka indeed.. anyway this PU is for 2018.

[Wazari]

It's pretty much on record there is an update Sept/Oct. Mexico is last race in that timeline but I would have thought 3rd last race is pretty late to aim for. I am thinking Suzuka is the target for obvious reasons, perhaps Malaysia for it's first run out in FP.

On a technical note, what's the differences between spec2 and 3 then 3 and 4? I was under impression spec 3 was purely core reliability (allowing full exploitation of existing PU, ie more power output). Is spec 4 the pre-chamber stuff? I'm not technical but interested.

I fully expected "Spec 4" to be implemented right after summer break but now I'm not sure since time and resources were spent on "Spec 3" which I did not expect. Spec 3 is relatively minor updates to Spec 2, (intake, MGU-H, mapping, etc). Spec 4 at this point would be a big update. New CC, pistons, turbine, compressor, cam profile, mapping, MGU-H, etc.