2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:14 am

Bottas laptimes being slower than Kimi has nothing to do with Bottas driving in defense mode. There is actaully less a chance of Lewis passing Bottas than Kimi.
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SR71
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by SR71 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:52 am

My question is Lewis claimed he was just hanging out in-case Bottas had an error. Why does Lewis deserve to benefit from a Kimi mistake and Bottas doesn't? Bottas earned his race position by qualifying ahead of Lewis and opening lap performances. Very entitled.

NathanOlder
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by NathanOlder » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:06 pm

Bottas couldn't benefit from a Kimi mistake, he was barely close enough at any time. And once Lewis was 3rd Bottas had nothing. Lewis would have benefited from a Kimi mistake or even a Seb mistake as he was less than 2sec off Kimi for many laps.


Lewis fans have no problem with what Lewis did

iotar__
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by iotar__ » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:08 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:06 pm
Bottas couldn't benefit from a Kimi mistake, he was barely close enough at any time. And once Lewis was 3rd Bottas had nothing. Lewis would have benefited from a Kimi mistake or even a Seb mistake as he was less than 2sec off Kimi for many laps.


Lewis fans have no problem with what Lewis did
Complete and utter nonsense only brought up to "justify" undeserved preferential treatment for Hamilton in this race and the whole season. Firstly if Bottas was so slow it should't be a problem for Hamilton to overtake him. Especially since the idea was to overtake supposedly quicker Raikkonen/Vettel. If you can't pull off the first one...

You are either missing or pretending to miss the concept and mechanism of team orders. if they put a driver (Hamilton) in front of you your job is not push 100% and stay close. That wouldn't look good in fake justification of switching places. Bottas's pace before and especially after switch is not important and should not be brought up as an argument. Why? Because they plan those moves before the race. Bottas wasn't slow at all.

Whether going back to initial position after team orders and failed attempts was optional or not is not important. At least this time pretended threat of Verstappen argument was spared, one of many cons in this cheap charade :roll: .

BTW to deserve team player label you need to do something for the team. At this moment it's Hamilton 5 - his team mates 0 in terms of team orders. 1 Hungary '14, 2 Monaco '16, 3-4 Bahrain '17, 5 Hungary '17.

CriXus
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by CriXus » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:31 pm

VETTEL vs HAMILTON Q3 Mini Sectors Comparision
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EdMsHAUX_A
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F1NAC
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by F1NAC » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:32 pm

Nice. Vettel smashed in last sector

Yurasyk
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Yurasyk » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:52 pm

BTW, on his final lap Vet was -0.172 s after the S2, but made a mistake on the S3, so the actual advantage could be much more.

F1NAC
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by F1NAC » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:17 pm

Yurasyk wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:52 pm
BTW, on his final lap Vet was -0.172 s after the S2, but made a mistake on the S3, so the actual advantage could be much more.
Yep you are so right. I totally forgot that his last run in q3 was slower by 0.001 seconds

Mandrake
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Mandrake » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:36 pm

That video is very nice, highlights the strengths of the cars.

Merc better on the straights and in fast flowing corners requiring good downforce, Ferrari better in the slower, more edgy corners. This pretty much shows the current balance of power where depending on the track's characteristics either Ferrari or Merc are massively in advantage or pretty dead even.

henry
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by henry » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:46 pm

Yes an excellent graphic.

Interestingly up to sector 3 as soon as they are on a "straight" the Mercedes is quicker but thereafter the Ferrari has it including as they approach the finish line where the Mercedes was quicker at the beginning of the lap. this suggests the Mercedes is running out of something, perhaps rear tyres, lack of traction, or front tyres, understeer and inability to drive out of the corner, or , less likely I think, deployment power.

I think this is the most useful videos lap analysis I have ever seen. I'd love to see more.

giantfan10
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by giantfan10 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:21 am

henry wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:46 pm
Yes an excellent graphic.

Interestingly up to sector 3 as soon as they are on a "straight" the Mercedes is quicker but thereafter the Ferrari has it including as they approach the finish line where the Mercedes was quicker at the beginning of the lap. this suggests the Mercedes is running out of something, perhaps rear tyres, lack of traction, or front tyres, understeer and inability to drive out of the corner, or , less likely I think, deployment power.

I think this is the most useful videos lap analysis I have ever seen. I'd love to see more.
How much of the advantage is down to when each car deploys their energy stores?
Setup?
Downforce levels?
All of the above?
I'm not buying the car length answer at all....mercedes was timed faster in the middle sector which is supposed to gavor the shorter car.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by PlatinumZealot » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:21 pm

As soon as the cars hit the high downforce corners the Ferrari gained. Interesting Video. Ferrari has better traction out of corners too, but Mercedes has more in the higher gears. I think this is more of an aerodynamic window sort of problem, plus a little bit of tyre temperatures..
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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by godlameroso » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:28 pm

What I've seen is better braking stability but longer braking distance from Mercedes. The Ferrari has shorter braking distance but is more on edge under braking. The Mercedes has better aero efficiency, but Ferrari has more peak downforce. Which makes Mercedes have less drag with a slight peak downforce penalty. Ferrari has a slight advantage in the low traction and mid to high speed corners, corner exit is too close to call. The cars are very close overall but have different things they're good at so the ultimate performance difference is down to circumstantial details, and the driver.
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Hammerfist
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Hammerfist » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:03 am

CriXus wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:31 pm
VETTEL vs HAMILTON Q3 Mini Sectors Comparision
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EdMsHAUX_A
Wow, look at Hamilton's hands when he is in the slow speed corners. How much he has to fight the car, compared to Vettel. That Ferrari is unmatched in the slow speed stuff. The high speed corners seem similar to me. Merc faster on the straights. Most likely Spa and Monza will be all Merc and Ferrari will dominate Singapore.

Zynerji
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Zynerji » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:40 am

...There's a TON of time to be saved in Spa in the corners. The first run from lasource might get the Reds a run up kemmel that has no DRS danger.

I expect Kimi, Lewis, Sebastian for the podium, but maybe I just like an underdog..



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