A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

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ChrisDanger
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by ChrisDanger » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:38 pm

Mad_Scientist wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:15 pm
I disagree. there cant be LESS passing by grouping the cars together.
Do you know why DRS was introduced? It's to aid passing, not to bunch the field. It's quite easy to catch up to someone. It's quite hard to overtake. Your change would aid catching up, but take away the assistance to pass.

This was an important event, as a catalyst to the introduction of DRS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Abu_ ... _Prix#Race

The crucial bit: Alonso and Webber were stuck behind a much slower Petrov from lap 18 to lap 55 (i.e. the end of the race).

Also, have you ever heard of a "Trulli train"?

Image

Okay, that's Panis, but the principle still applies.

Know your history (or at least what DRS aims to accomplish) before you suggest changes to the rules.

Actually, don't even bother suggesting changes to the rules. What are you hoping to accomplish? There's nothing any forum member can do about it. Brawn wants to abolish DRS. He's the best hope for anyone who thinks DRS overtakes "ruin the spectacle" or whatever, because he's actually in a position to instigate changes.

Mad_Scientist
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by Mad_Scientist » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:52 pm

DRS was also before wider tires and other aero and chassis improvements to help with passing.

ChrisDanger
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by ChrisDanger » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:52 pm

Mad_Scientist wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:52 pm
DRS was also before wider tires and other aero and chassis improvements to help with passing.
And with those changes Hamilton started saying "It's impossible to pass with these cars."

Mad_Scientist
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by Mad_Scientist » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:10 pm

That was 2 years ago. Improvements have been made.

adrianjordan
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by adrianjordan » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:34 am

Mad_Scientist wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:10 pm
That was 2 years ago. Improvements have been made.
Again, know your rules. The wider tyres and extra aero were not 2 years ago, they were introduced this year.
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

NL_Fer
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by NL_Fer » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:45 am

And they are not to improve overtaking itself. They were made to increase cornering speed and g forces, to make the cars harder en more exciting to drive. As a plus they made the tires less sensitive to overheating by close racing.

Mad_Scientist
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by Mad_Scientist » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:46 am

adrianjordan wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:34 am
Mad_Scientist wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:10 pm
That was 2 years ago. Improvements have been made.
Again, know your rules. The wider tyres and extra aero were not 2 years ago, they were introduced this year.
Again, read the entire thread, because I was referring to lewis's comments.

adrianjordan
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by adrianjordan » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:04 pm

Mad_Scientist wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:46 am
adrianjordan wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:34 am
Mad_Scientist wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:10 pm
That was 2 years ago. Improvements have been made.
Again, know your rules. The wider tyres and extra aero were not 2 years ago, they were introduced this year.
Again, read the entire thread, because I was referring to lewis's comments.
I read the entire thread. Someone mentioned that the new rules, which came in this year, were introduced. Someone then said that Hamilton has said those changes have made it harder to overtake. You then made the comment I replied to about those quotes being 2 years ago.

The logic doesn't follow, how can Hamilton make quotes 2 years ago about changes introduced this year??
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Mad_Scientist
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by Mad_Scientist » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:53 am

adrianjordan wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:04 pm
Mad_Scientist wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:46 am
adrianjordan wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:34 am


Again, know your rules. The wider tyres and extra aero were not 2 years ago, they were introduced this year.
Again, read the entire thread, because I was referring to lewis's comments.
I read the entire thread. Someone mentioned that the new rules, which came in this year, were introduced. Someone then said that Hamilton has said those changes have made it harder to overtake. You then made the comment I replied to about those quotes being 2 years ago.

The logic doesn't follow, how can Hamilton make quotes 2 years ago about changes introduced this year??
I was pointing out Chris's flawed timeline myself. as he implied the changes were the cause for lewis's comments. I should of been more clear.

iulian_florea
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by iulian_florea » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:02 pm

I was thinking of a track specific DRS enabling gap.
In doesn't make sens to have the same one second gap on all tracks. On Spa for example I would go higher than one second (it is hard to follow in dirty air).
They should adjust the gap each year accordin to previous experience and cars.

Mad_Scientist
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by Mad_Scientist » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:05 pm

iulian_florea wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:02 pm
I was thinking of a track specific DRS enabling gap.
In doesn't make sens to have the same one second gap on all tracks. On Spa for example I would go higher than one second (it is hard to follow in dirty air).
They should adjust the gap each year accordin to previous experience and cars.
I was thinking they should just try to remove the dirty air and keep the pack close with aero benefits, but thats just me. I dont like the 1 second gap rule at all. its on the car, use it. Id rather have it unlimited than gap rule of any type to be honest. I mean really all your doing is artificially creating competition. Just get rid of it, or make it unlimited so F1 can be F1

ChrisDanger
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by ChrisDanger » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:17 pm

Mad_Scientist wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:53 am
I was pointing out Chris's flawed timeline myself. as he implied the changes were the cause for lewis's comments. I should of been more clear.
I'm not sure I follow. At the beginning of this year, with the introduction of the wider tyres, wider track width, wider and lower rear wings, etc., Hamilton started saying "It's impossible to overtake in these cars." Are those not the changes you were referring to here?

Mad_Scientist wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:52 pm
DRS was also before wider tires and other aero and chassis improvements to help with passing.

bucker
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by bucker » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:48 pm

Mad_Scientist wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:25 am
So I understand the motivation for DRS. You use it within a second and hopefully it gives enough speed advantage that you beat P+ to the corner. Now the essence of this rule negates horsepower advantage of a stronger car. Also, you already have an advantage if your close behind on the straightaway from the draft. I propose F1 use DRS to tighten up the entire field. I loath races with 20 second gaps between cars. I also cant stand the front guys racing, and then the leader gets a DRS boost from a back marker. I just think this asset could be used better. I have worded my suggestion as a rule would be worded below, and I'm interested in your thoughts on the matter.

F1 DRS Rule Proposal:

"DRS shall be enabled for any car whose interval behind the next highest position exceeds 2% of the current best lap set by any car. Except during the last 10 laps of the race, the interval requirement shall be 1%. DRS shall be available any time a car exceeds its interval requirement and is not under braking.

Example 1: Lap 3 of 50. Current fastest lap time is 95 Seconds. Any car with a interval greater than 1.9 seconds to the next position shall be allowed DRS.

Example 2: Lap 41 if 50. Current fastest lap time is 88 Seconds. Any car with an interval greater than .88 seconds to the next position shall be allowed DRS."




a few points to my proposal.

#1 DRS usage over the entire circuit should lead to less fuel usage. Saving fuel for the end of the race when engine control settings can be Max Horsepower for longer.

#2 This usage of DRS forces drivers to get closer with skill and horsepower. sure your mid pack car is slower. but if DRS take you JUST to the interval limit and you cant close the gap the rest of the way, well.. that's on the driver.

#3 worded this way, this DRS rule would allow for the race to get more and more competitive as the race moves on, due to quicker lap times being set, and the 10 lap remaining rule. If a driver is floating on the edge, and cant quite use DRS, then all of a sudden someone sets a quicker lap, or the 10 lap barrier is crossed, well now they may have just enough to get into the slip stream on the long straightaway.

#4 I would think that interval would need to be updated multiple times per lap and broadcast directly to the car for Electronic management. Take out any requirement for the driver to activate the system.



your thoughts? Im willing to sacrifice straightaway and turn 1 passing for a much tighter field and the potential stress it puts on the driver to watch his mirrors.
I understand the point, but you made it very complicated. I was also thinking about that, how to use DRS in different way in F1. It should tighten up the field. So the rule should be.

QUALI:
DRS can be used only in DRS zones.

RACE:
DRS can be used only in DRS zones. Every car on track except P1 and cars that are overtaken by one or more laps can use DRS. You are no longer allowed to use DRS, when you get 0.5s (or 1s) behind another car, unless you are overtaking cars that are one or more laps behind.

When cars get together, DRS should no longer be allowed so we could see more competitive overtakes.

NL_Fer
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by NL_Fer » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:34 pm

All to complicated.

With some editting or changing of DRS area on the tracks, we can accomplish better results. For example, tracks like China with an idiot long straight, do not need any DRS or only on the start/finish part. For Suzuka or Hungary it is essential.

CBeck113
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Re: A DRS proposal. (be gentle on me please!)

Post by CBeck113 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:08 pm

DRS is like trophies for every participant - it leaves the impression that the driver has done something special, when heonly pushed a button.

The Trulli train was because he was a phenominal qualifyer, and was earned, as was his apparent 3,50m width while racing. I honestly believe that, with less aero dependence and more mechanical traction, that that type of procession racing would no longer happen - the drivers would either get past or crash...but either way they'd have to earn the position.
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail