Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
axle
axle
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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2009

Engine

Engine life to be doubled. Each driver will use a maximum of eight engines for the season plus four for testing (thus 20 per team).

Limit of 18,000 rpm.

No internal re-tuning. Adjustment to trumpets and injectors only.

The three-race rule voted on 5 November remains in force.

Cost of engines to independent teams will be approximately 50% of 2008 prices.

Unanimous agreement was reached on a list of proposed changes to the Renault engine for 2009; all other engines will remain unchanged. Comparative testing will not be necessary.

Testing

No in-season testing except during race weekend during scheduled practice.

Aerodynamic research

No wind tunnel exceeding 60% scale and 50 metres/sec to be used after 1 January 2009.

A formula to balance wind tunnel-based research against CFD research, if agreed between the teams, will be proposed to the FIA.

Factory activity

Factory closures for six weeks per year, to accord with local laws.

Race weekend

Manpower to be reduced by means of a number of measures, including sharing information on tyres and fuel to eliminate the need for "spotters".

Sporting spectacle

Market research is being conducted to gauge the public reaction to a number of new ideas, including possible changes to qualifying and a proposal for the substitution of medals for points for the drivers. Proposals will be submitted to the FIA when the results of the market research are known.

Note: It is estimated that these changes for 2009 will save the manufacturer teams approximately 30% of their budgets compared to 2008, while the savings for independent teams will be even greater.

2010

Power train

Engines will be available to the independent teams for less than €5 million per team per season. These will either come from an independent supplier or be supplied by the manufacturer teams backed by guarantees of continuity. If an independent supplier, the deal will be signed no later than 20 December 2008.

This same engine will continue to be used in 2011 and 2012 (thus no new engine for 2011).

Subject to confirmation of practicability, the same transmission will be used by all teams.

Chassis

A list of all elements of the chassis will be prepared and a decision taken in respect of each element as to whether or not it will remain a performance differentiator (competitive element).

Some elements which remain performance differentiators will be homologated for the season.

Some elements will remain performance differentiators, but use inexpensive materials.

Elements which are not performance differentiators will be prescriptive and be obtained or manufactured in the most economical possible way.

Race weekend

Standardised radio and telemetry systems.

Ban on tyre warmers.

Ban on mechanical purging of tyres.

**Ban on refueling**

Possible reduction in race distance or duration (proposal to follow market research).

Factory activity

Further restrictions on aerodynamic research.

Ban on tyre force rigs (other than vertical force rigs).

Full analysis of factory facilities with a view to proposing further restrictions on facilities.

Longer term

The FIA and FOTA will study the possibility of an entirely new power train for 2013 based on energy efficiency (obtaining more work from less energy consumed). Rules to be framed so as to ensure that research and development of such a power train would make a real contribution to energy-efficient road transport.

An enhanced Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) system is likely to be a very significant element of an energy-efficient power train in the future. In the short term, KERS is part of the 2009 regulations, but is not compulsory. For 2010 FOTA is considering proposals for a standard KERS system. The FIA awaits proposals.

A number of further amendments were adopted for the 2009 and 2010 Sporting and Technical Regulations.
- Axle

Conceptual
Conceptual
0
Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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So, in other words, it remains F1 in name only.

nae
nae
0
Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 00:56

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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2009 the last season for F1
..?

modbaraban
modbaraban
0
Joined: 05 Apr 2007, 17:44
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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Looks like the ban on testing during the season is the only sane decision :roll:

donskar
donskar
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Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 16:41
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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I agree with Conceptual.

Some details:
60% wind tunnels? What happens to the tunnels currently in use? Do they just sit there? How does THAT save $?

No refueling? Fuel tank size/shape/location is a critical part of a car's basic design. I don't think the cars can be redesigned at this date to go full distance without refueling?

F1 teams to "share information"?! :wtf:

Engines: "Each driver will use a maximum of eight engines for the season plus four for testing (thus 20 per team)." If "each" get 8 + 4, isn't that 24 for the team?

Thank god for IndyCar racing. It WAS a pale imitation of F1, but now F1 is becoming a pale imitation of what it once was. The "pinnacle" is becoming an ant hill.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

bgroovers
bgroovers
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Joined: 16 Oct 2008, 17:15

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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I like it, it seems to be a good compromise that will hopefully stop f1 floundering into obscurity. I have been an F1 fan since 89, and consider myself a well informed fan. I love checking out the tech changes and so but it is superfluous to good racing. Standardization of some parts like wheel nuts, brakes and so on is a sensible idea and doesnt detract from the high tech spectacle for me. In fact i think they should standardize front and rear wing end plates too as they seem the change at every race with little or no impact on the "racing".
My only fear is for the sound of f1 under a new engine formula in 2013.
Why cant we have an monza or indycar style rear wing with a high and wide but shallow rear wing and slightly narrower from wing so the cars look a bit better.
I will also be very happy to see a return of cosworth to the grid as the standard engine supplier. I think its a great idea. Cant believe i agree with S&Max!

axle
axle
3
Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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4 Race engine isn't a problem....nor the price of the engines.

What they should really ban is the throwing away of perfectly good parts, like wheel nuts and other screws etc which see action just once.

I would like to see Friday opened up to a bit more testing though, like 2x 2hr sessions. An extra hour wouldn't hurt IMO.

Wind tunnels will be sold or rented out to OEM's etc for their work.

No refueling was from 2010...so the fuel cell issue can be worked on over the year...and they could always use KERS to reduce the need for fuel ;) :p
- Axle

smirkoff
smirkoff
5
Joined: 09 Aug 2008, 01:45

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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I think is this or nothing, and by "nothing" one could mean also A1GP or GP2.

I was very unhappy with all this situation, but started to see things in a positive way with some of this measures announced today.

I don't liked all the decisions, but agreed with some, like the ban on refuelling and the ban on tyre warmers from 2010. And I think there's plenty of details that can be standardized without make the cars exact copies of each other.

What left me worried is the decision to left for a "marketing research" the very bad ideas of the medal system, new quali system and reduction of GP distance (no, please!! it's very short already!!). Marketing researches are scary, to say the least...

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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modbaraban wrote:Looks like the ban on testing during the season is the only sane decision :roll:
I would add std radio and telemetry systems.

The teams didnt wanted std engines, but now they will have them: the only difference is that they will be manufactured inhouse. Same bore x stroke, same config, same rpm, same cog, same weight, same ecu... :roll:

18,000 rpm? Why dont 16,000 so the engine lasts half a year? #-o Come on! My 125cc kart revs like that! High revs is what makes distinctive F1! There must be another way to keep costs at bay with 20,000rpm.
No wind tunnel exceeding 60% scale and 50 metres/sec to be used after 1 January 2009

What happens if you hire a "secret service" from an X company, lets say located in america, lets say 100% scale, to study your car aero?
Sporting spectacle

Market research is being conducted to gauge the public reaction to a number of new ideas...
No sh*t? Really? They should start reading this forum...
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

axle
axle
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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Belatti wrote:No sh*t? Really? They should start reading this forum...
We are.
- Axle

twoshots
twoshots
2
Joined: 01 Jul 2008, 12:37

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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Belatti wrote:18,000 rpm? Why dont 16,000 so the engine lasts half a year?
I think I suggest something similar before in the cost cutting thread. However, we are wrong!

A 16,000 rpm limit will lead to lots of engine blowing up early. As with all engines the crankshaft has vibrational modes some of which will have resonances across the rpm range. For the current engine configuration there will be a few lying across the middle of the rpm range. Put simply, the engine cannot run in this range for long before it goes bang.

So the 18,000 rpm limit allows them to run safely between 15,000 and 18,000 rpm without redesigning the engine.

Scotracer
Scotracer
3
Joined: 22 Apr 2008, 17:09
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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Try to not be melodramatic about this is hard.

F1 has been killed. Regardless of the actual sporting spectacle, F1 is dead.

It disgusts me the way they define them "performance differentiators". That sounds so bloody gimmicky.

And the V8s sound bad enough at 19,000rpm - they'll sound pathetic at 18,000rpm. I was going to go to a grand prix in 2009, but now I don't think I'll bother.
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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I agree with donskar, do today's F1 Cars have the needed fuel-tank capacity for a non-tankstop race and why don't FIA ban tyre-stops too while they're at it?

Over the past years, F1 "racing" has become so utterly boring that I have learned to watch the first and last ten minutes, while zapping in for the pit-windows.

In between I watch something a little more exciting, like Swedish women's soccer...
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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We have a thread about technical regulations, maybe that could be good to continue there:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5669&p=89056#p89056

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Full List of cost cuts for 2009+

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axle wrote:
Belatti wrote:No sh*t? Really? They should start reading this forum...
We are.
So, you are making market research for FIA???
twoshots wrote:
Belatti wrote:18,000 rpm? Why dont 16,000 so the engine lasts half a year?
I think I suggest something similar before in the cost cutting thread. However, we are wrong!
I was being deeply sarcastic there :wink:
xpensive wrote:Over the past years, F1 "racing" has become so utterly boring that I have learned to watch the first and last ten minutes, while zapping in for the pit-windows.

In between I watch something a little more exciting, like Swedish women's soccer...
I disagree on the first, with exceptions on some tracks (the 2 in Spain most of all).

OOT: Swedish women are really beautiful, sharing 3rd place with Czechs and only after Argentinian and Colombian women :wink:
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna