Rule Interpretation - Double deck diffusers

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
DaveKillens
DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

Based upon the second practice times all of the 'ingenious 3' are right up on top of the charts. Unless there's something happening we don't know about, it's reasonable to assume this diffuser design definitely has an advantage over the rest.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

Crabbia
Crabbia
9
Joined: 13 Jun 2006, 22:39
Location: ZA

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

i can't see how the 'upper chamber' of the diffusers would be fed from the front of the car, there would have to be a channels and so there would be a gap for the airflow beteen the internals and the floor which would cause a much higher CoM of the car as a whole, i just dont see it.
i think it may be a splitter and force more air underneath the car and possibly a compartment in which to put quite a bit of ballast. (they arent running a kers remember, although if they did this place would be the best place for batteries, forward planning anyone?)
A wise man once told me you cant polish a turd...

User avatar
Shaddock
0
Joined: 07 Nov 2006, 14:39
Location: UK

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

Ferrari and BMW's new diffusers.

Image

Image

BMW is very narrow :?:

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

Could it be that the "Innovative-three" have their gearboxes designed according to their diffuser-shape, why it becomes somewhat difficult for the others to just copy'n paste?
Another reason for Brawn not wanting the entire McLaren drive-train, which would seem to have been the logical way to go for a team in a time-squeeze?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

sstanescu
sstanescu
0
Joined: 03 Oct 2008, 12:18
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

Question: what's that yellow "ring" at both diffuser's design? I assume it is not a tow ring :roll:

User avatar
lkocev
5
Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 08:34

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

sstanescu wrote:Question: what's that yellow "ring" at both diffuser's design? I assume it is not a tow ring :roll:
Its the opening so that the starter motor shaft can be connected to the gearbox for starting the engine.

User avatar
machin
162
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

joseff wrote:
I believe your interpretation would be illegal.

Agreed.... and I think you may be onto something with your explanation of what they might be doing.... only thing is though that those holes would have to either be completely vertical or sloping in (so the lower edge of the hole is further outboard than the top of the hole, otherwise you'd be able to see through the hole from beneath......

Must admit I did at first wonder if the upper portion got air from above the floor and acted a bit like an eductor... i.e accelerating air above the lower deck of the diffuser to suck more air from it.... but this alternative could be the answer!

OK, who's up for creating a 3D model to show us the arrangement (these shadey photos just don't give it away!!!)????
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

User avatar
ISLAMATRON
0
Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

Longley wrote:When you look at these pictures from f1today.nl you can see where brawn and williams get the extra air for their diffusers

Not so easy to copy I think
Those do not feed extra air to the diffusers... if anything they provide more front downforce to balance the extra downforce created by the diffusers.

I'm not 100% sure the diffusers need that much extra air, there higher efficiency could just lower the pressure of the air that is already there, creating a higher pressure gradient and thus more downforce, just an idea, not 100% percent sure on that one.

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

xpensive wrote:Could it be that the "Innovative-three" have their gearboxes designed according to their diffuser-shape, why it becomes somewhat difficult for the others to just copy'n paste?
Another reason for Brawn not wanting the entire McLaren drive-train, which would seem to have been the logical way to go for a team in a time-squeeze?
I was thinking about that, too.
And maybe its like that: Toyota and Williams may have the same drive train and Brawn has got a different from McM one?

If thats the case, I understand why do the other teams complain: its difficult and takes tiem and money to redesign the drive train (gearbox+diff+KERS)
If thats not the case, the teams would have already changed the diffuser design...

The phrase "rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" has never sounded that nice too me till now :D :P =D>

These are some of the good things (among other bad) that big rule changing brings to the sport.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

User avatar
ISLAMATRON
0
Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

It may have nothing to do with the gearbox+diff, but may have everything to do with the rear crash structure which must be tested by the FIA everytime it is changed. And that takes weeks if I remember correctly.

F1ParkingSpace
F1ParkingSpace
0
Joined: 25 Mar 2009, 17:56

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

ISLAMATRON wrote:It may have nothing to do with the gearbox+diff, but may have everything to do with the rear crash structure which must be tested by the FIA everytime it is changed. And that takes weeks if I remember correctly.
Do the teams have to pay the FiA a fee to have the test carried out?

If so, maybe the appeal will be thrown out on the grounds that the FiA needs to claw back some of the money it's losing by backing down on the superlicense fee increase... :wink:

Conceptual
Conceptual
0
Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

So, when do we expect McLaren to start buying Brawn Gearbox/Diffusor/Rear Suspension components? Force India as well?

Maybe an even trade for the Mercedes Engines?

kNt
kNt
0
Joined: 22 Jan 2008, 17:32

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

Looking trough the sides of the Brawn diffuser I don't think there needs to be a hole in the floor, couldn't they just feed the upper deck of the diffuser trough the side channels as in this illustration?

Image

User avatar
machin
162
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

So... is this the arrangement we're talking about?????

Image
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

User avatar
ISLAMATRON
0
Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: 2009 Difusser Rule Interpretation

Post

outstanding pic Machin, thank you