Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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Will Red Bull take the constructors title here?

Yes
33
66%
No
17
34%
 
Total votes: 50

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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Tech talk interview with AN is a great one too.

http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_ ... 3104713463

intelligentF1
intelligentF1
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011, 21:33

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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Frankly, as I was watching the pitstop, I couldn't help but think that the team made the absolutely wrong decision. Everything made sense for him to stay out and keep out. The more Hamilton stayed out, the more his tires would've degraded and Webber could've had a chance on passing him on the track. If Hamilton pitted, Mark could've made a larger gap to Hamilton which would've defended his position through a final pit on the surprisingly resilient options. Confusing choice by the team and Mark and one that didn't suit the situation.
My report on the data shows that Webber was faster on the primes than on the options, but that the McLarens were slower. However, the pace of Hamilton after his stop was fast enough that Webber staying out would not have got him ahead. The tactic then would be to stay out long enough that Webber's tyres would be much younger in the last stint giving a bigger pace advantage. The problem here is that Jenson would have undercut him if he was not careful. I'll do the analysis of the different scenarios in the coming days.

Of course, what they wanted to do was undercut. McLaren defended that well.
-----------------------------------------------------------
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intelligentF1
intelligentF1
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011, 21:33

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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Is it me, or did Ferrari get the first stint completely wrong. I've seen no comments on why Alonso was behind Schumacher/Petrov after the first stops. Did something go wrong at the stop, or did Ferrari stay on the options too long?

I had assumed the others hadn't stopped. But I checked, and they had. Haven't heard anything about a bad Ferrari stop either. Petrov may just have saved Alonso's race!
-----------------------------------------------------------
I watch for the racing, but I like playing with the data...
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Mandrake
Mandrake
14
Joined: 31 May 2010, 01:31

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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I was a bit surprised at the start when Vettel passed Hamilton with almost no effort. I thought that Lewis was overly cautious there, not blocking the inner line enough to make Vettel take the outside. Also the corner entry was very conservative.

I liked what I saw, good there was no crash/contact, but I felt Hamilton wasn't defending as much as he could have done. With Webber later he hung on pretty well to the fight.

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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Maybe he's beginning to take the view of "you can't win a race in the 1st lap, but you can lose it."
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

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Traction
0
Joined: 14 Jun 2011, 11:50
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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Intersetingly when LH was asked about his Mclaren he was of the opinion that even though he lacked downforce and was close to lock on certain turns he inspected the wing and never found anything wrong...then hints that he might not have had teh best set up for the race.

Mandrake..Vettel was bound to overtake LH but when he did, by LH own admission he made the slightest of errors by not having his car in the right position to defend when Seb made his move so it ended up been easier than it could have been.
Generally I don't care about what people say. I have to be clear with myself. When everything goes well, people celebrate you, when you make mistakes people criticize you.
Sebastian Vettel

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Jeffsvilleusa
0
Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 00:14
Location: San Francisco

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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I don't think Hamilton could have done much to keep Vettel behind during the first lap- Vettel was all over Hamilton and had several looks before sticking it, and then he proceeded to pull away which Hamilton couldn't answer all race.

All in all a little bit of a dull race in my opinion- except there was some fantastic wheel to wheel racing with Webber and... who was it? Robserg?
Box! Box!

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Intego
10
Joined: 01 Apr 2010, 16:35

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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It's rather applause to LH to manage a fast RB ... :roll:
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BigLan
BigLan
0
Joined: 26 Sep 2011, 17:37

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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RB7ate9 wrote: ---Begin Rant---
I think the team made the strategic move to maintain Vettel at the front of the grid. Webber, on the options, had the chance to make great gains which would've meant that Vettel, still on the primes, would've ended up either behind Webber or Hamilton in a pit stop. While the argument could be made that if the pit-stop strategy were wrong, Hamilton could've regained the lead after Webber's second pit if Vettel were behind Hamilton, Vettel was ahead enough that, at worst, he would've been between Webber and Hamilton. The strategic decision to keep Vettel in front and have Webber around Hamilton was to keep the pressure on Hamilton since the Mclarens were awfully fast on the DRS straight (as Hamilton demonstrated on Webber). So, knowing that, the team went with keeping Webber close to Hamilton and give Vettel a more comfortable lead to win the GP. As a Webber fan, it was incredibly frustrating to see him on a good set of options pit at the same time as a car with the super-softs, but from a team perspective, it was the call to make and they safely secured their WCC.
---End Rant---
I thought during the race that RB were sacrificing Webber to help Vettel. By keeping Webber fighting with Hamilton it made both of them slower, and Vettel disappeared down the road. Hamilton was using all his kers on the DRS straight to keep Webber at bay (and allowing Button and Alonso to catch them) while Mark's strategy was ruined being held behind Hamilton.

RB7ate9
RB7ate9
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Joined: 13 Jul 2011, 03:03

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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BigLan wrote: I thought during the race that RB were sacrificing Webber to help Vettel. By keeping Webber fighting with Hamilton it made both of them slower, and Vettel disappeared down the road. Hamilton was using all his kers on the DRS straight to keep Webber at bay (and allowing Button and Alonso to catch them) while Mark's strategy was ruined being held behind Hamilton.
I've heard folks talk about undercutting through the pits from both teams. So unless we can see some definitive footage of either the RBR or Mcl mechanics scrambling first, or some radio messages, this remains a theory.

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Intego
10
Joined: 01 Apr 2010, 16:35

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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There was a call for Lewis and it was on the coverage in turn 13: "Ok, Lewis, we should box this lap, box this lap, please confirm!" But there was no answer. I thought RB had just enough time to instruct Webber to stay out. Maybe they thought Lewis would not pit, because he didn't confirm ...
Martin Brundle said that it was good information for Red Bull and wondered what Webber could do in clean air. He and DC were surprised as well as he also came into pits.
Also I wondered if Webber could have been faster with older tyres ...
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jamsbong
jamsbong
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Joined: 13 May 2007, 05:00

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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It has been 16 races already so I believe most drivers should be familiar with the high tire degradations. What I really don't get is why Vettel remains one level clear off everyone else? Why is it that Webber is not able to be faster than Vettel despite having the same car? In fact, he is not even closing the gap. Webber's fastest lap is 0.6 seconds off Vettel's in the race and Q3 pace is also 0.6 off.

Hamilton was going well in Quali, then suddenly chronic understeer force him to defend against Webber instead of fighting Vettel. Button, who is fame for his gentle nature on tires, is also suffering from no grip from the very start of the race.

Don't Vettel's engineer share info about tire degradation to Webber's engineer? that way both drivers can pit at the best (most optimal) time to max use the tire without slowing down.

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djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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Re Webber, it's simple, Vettel is 15 kilos lighter and a fair bit shorter than Mark and as a result has more ballast to play with and a lower center of gravity. That sort of thing is Gold in F1.
"In downforce we trust"

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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djos - I don't think the ballast placement plays a big role nowadays. There's only 7kg of leeway to play with in the regulations. I doubt the RB7 is less than 7kg underweight. So both would be able to have the same 7kg to move front and back.

However there is some CofG advantage I agree. ESPN's F1 website quotes Vettel as 58kg and Mark at 75kg; so that's a (relatively) massive 17kg difference in weight.

Jamsbong - some of Webber's lack of fastest lap can be explained by the fact that he was behind Lewis - Vettel had a clear track to push. If Mark made a bid for fastest lap he would've driven through Lewis.
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jamsbong
jamsbong
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Joined: 13 May 2007, 05:00

Re: Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

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In 2010, Webber was able to challenge Vettel in some races, so I think the weight advantage should not be the reason. After all, this year's car is heavier than last year, so if weight is so advantageous then Vettel should be more dominant last year.

I guess the last lap race comparison is not as good but certainly the Q3 0.6 secs is undeniable.

Now that Red Bull has won everything they needed to win, the 3 remaining races will be interesting for me to see Vettel vs other drivers. Judging from Vettel's great overtake on 1st lap and the superfast last lap, there may be more from the Unleashed champion yet.