The Fanboy Yin Yang Thread

[raymondu999]

At Silverstone till the first pit stops, Vettel was faster than Hamilton all 11 laps except one lap (by 0.053 sec). He was 16 seconds in front at the end of lap 11.

Yes he was – but as I said in my original post – Hamilton was held up behind people at Silverstone, he was however easily passing people on track.

Falling off the road easily too. He out braked himself quite a few times. Canada is quite difficult to read too in terms of traffic. I'd think that there would be quite some aero benefit due to the slipstreaming. Dont forget McLaren plugged on a massive rear wing for Canada; which was rather criticized after qualifying day by the McLaren drivers as well as on F1T

Anyways, we're digressing. Let's get back to Interlagos

[LionKing]

At Silverstone till the first pit stops, Vettel was faster than Hamilton all 11 laps except one lap (by 0.053 sec). He was 16 seconds in front at the end of lap 11.

Yes he was – but as I said in my original post – Hamilton was held up behind people at Silverstone, he was however easily passing people on track.

Laptimes at Canada before Hamilton retires at lap 7:

---------Vettel----------Hamilton Delta Gap
1. 2:18.174 [1] 2:22.459 [5] -4.285 -4.285
2. 2:06.919 [1] 2:06.157 [5] +0.762 -3.523
3. 2:05.303 [1] 2:05.340 [5] -0.037 -3.560
4. 2:05.715 [1] 2:03.927 [5] +1.788 -1.772
5. 1:36.175 [1] 1:40.949 [6] -4.774 -6.546
6. 1:34.827 [1] 1:39.917 [7] -5.090 -11.636
7. 1:35.452 [1] 1:37.761 [7] -2.309 -13.945

Again – bottled up behind people – when Hamilton had clean air he was 0.7 faster, 0.03 slower, 1.8 faster

There is a slight problem with your argument. In so called the laps "when Hamilton had clean air", they were all lapping around behind the safety car

I will not argue whether Hamilton was indeed the fastest guy during the 4 lap safety car period, however when the race started. Vettel was 14 seconds in front in 3 laps....

[beelsebob]

At Silverstone till the first pit stops, Vettel was faster than Hamilton all 11 laps except one lap (by 0.053 sec). He was 16 seconds in front at the end of lap 11.

Yes he was – but as I said in my original post – Hamilton was held up behind people at Silverstone, he was however easily passing people on track.

Laptimes at Canada before Hamilton retires at lap 7:

---------Vettel----------Hamilton Delta Gap
1. 2:18.174 [1] 2:22.459 [5] -4.285 -4.285
2. 2:06.919 [1] 2:06.157 [5] +0.762 -3.523
3. 2:05.303 [1] 2:05.340 [5] -0.037 -3.560
4. 2:05.715 [1] 2:03.927 [5] +1.788 -1.772
5. 1:36.175 [1] 1:40.949 [6] -4.774 -6.546
6. 1:34.827 [1] 1:39.917 [7] -5.090 -11.636
7. 1:35.452 [1] 1:37.761 [7] -2.309 -13.945

Again – bottled up behind people – when Hamilton had clean air he was 0.7 faster, 0.03 slower, 1.8 faster

There is a slight problem with your argument. In so called the laps "when Hamilton had clean air", they were all lapping around behind the safety car

I will not argue whether Hamilton was indeed the fastest guy during the 4 lap safety car period, however when the race started. Vettel was 14 seconds in front in 3 laps....

Erq, my bad, missremembered the race . Anyway, the bottom line is that we only have one race to reference really where Vettel and Hamilton were in similar circumstances in the wet – Hungary. Hamilton climbed all over him and passed him.

[Richard]

Anyway, the bottom line is that we only have one race to reference really where Vettel and Hamilton were in similar circumstances in the wet – Hungary. Hamilton climbed all over him and passed him.

... and then spun off the track (twice) and was overtaken by Button.

Button didn't spin off in the race. So on that basis Button is better than Hamilton who is better than Vettel?

Alsonso had a few off track moments, and Massa seemed to think his job was to cut the grass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Hunga ... _Prix#Race

[beelsebob]

Anyway, the bottom line is that we only have one race to reference really where Vettel and Hamilton were in similar circumstances in the wet – Hungary. Hamilton climbed all over him and passed him.

... and then spun off the track (twice) and was overtaken by Button.

Button didn't spin off in the race. So on that basis Button is better than Hamilton who is better than Vettel?

Alsonso had a few off track moments, and Massa seemed to think his job was to cut the grass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Hunga ... _Prix#Race

Hamilton only spun because he was on completely the wrong tyres. But you're right – it's very muddy who's quick in the wet. It's certainly in no way clear cut that Vettel is a regenmeister.

[raymondu999]

No, but it's clear cut that he's probably one of the better ones.

[Aced]

Hamilton only spun because he was on completely the wrong tyres. But you're right – it's very muddy who's quick in the wet. It's certainly in no way clear cut that Vettel is a regenmeister.

Actually, I think Hamilton spun because he hit the higher end of the kerb.

But I agree that it's not quite clear who's quick in the wet. We haven't seen much racing in the wet.

What I wanna see in Brazil is a wet start, a drying track in the middle and then rain again in the end. Hopefully no safety cars(because of rain) and no red flags. And most important, not another safety car start.

And I just hope they don't put DRS in the pit straight as enough overtaking takes place there anyway. Would be awesome if they put it in the straight between turns 3-4.

[ringo]

It is clear as day:

Hamilton, shumacher, Vettel, Sutil

Rain Kings.

Alonso is sometimish as raymond says. Button was never good in the wet. He actually falls back.
If he sees the track drying and he senses the slicks will take 5 laps to warm on it, and that the line will dry in 5 laps, you can bet your house Button is going to pit to make it the plan work.
Give Button increasing rain and he's doomed (korea 2010). Give him drying track , a little pitwall chaos, and he stands a chance of foxing out a good pit call.

This race better be a classic wet race. Dry to wet, like Spa 2010.

[raymondu999]

Actually ringo if anything Korea 2010 started from heavy wet and ended on inters so it was decreasingly wet if anything. It was also one of the rare races that Button looked at sea (which he absolutely did). His call to switch to inters were 5 or 6 laps too early, he kept spinning (of his own accord) to do 180/360s... He was absolutely nowhere. IIRC he finished only ahead of 2 HRTs?

[ell66]

In terms of wet races, hamilton in my mind is the best by a decent margin, with vettel probaby in 2nd, alonso does ok, but nothing special, button how ever is generally very weak on wet tyres, and actually burns them up very quickly, forcing him to go onto slicks luckily for him at that point the tracks normally ready for them and as we all know he's very competitive on a drying track.

[Mr.S]

It's a matter of shame to even compare Hamilton & Button when it comes to driving in the wet. Hungary showed it,Canada showed it. Last year China & Austrlia showed it.

Spa last year showed it. Dear Lewis once again for slipped off the track in the wet & was very lucky not to hit the barriers & won the race(Good old lucky Lewis). China last year showed that Button could easily match hamilton's times & Hamilton's times slowly fell off as the tyres got older.

Plus it is not easy driving with slicks in the wet & Button did for a few laps in China last year & managed to keep the car in the track unlike Hamilton.

Also Hamilton sucked in korea last year too,didnt he??? Didn't he spun off again & loose his place to Alonso.

Hamilton has NEVER been anything exceptional in the wet,makes way too many mistakes.

[raymondu999]

S, that's slightly selective memory. Fuji 07, Silverstone 08?

Hamilton lost 1 place to the Ferrari in Korea 2010, but Button only finished a few seconds ahead of the 2 HRTs which miraculously finished...

[ell66]

It's a matter of shame to even compare Hamilton & Button when it comes to driving in the wet. Hungary showed it,Canada showed it. Last year China & Austrlia showed it.

Spa last year showed it. Dear Lewis once again for slipped off the track in the wet & was very lucky not to hit the barriers & won the race(Good old lucky Lewis). China last year showed that Button could easily match hamilton's times & Hamilton's times slowly fell off as the tyres got older.

Plus it is not easy driving with slicks in the wet & Button did for a few laps in China last year & managed to keep the car in the track unlike Hamilton.

Also Hamilton sucked in korea last year too,didnt he??? Didn't he spun off again & loose his place to Alonso.

Hamilton has NEVER been anything exceptional in the wet,makes way too many mistakes.

If you took notice and read the posts, everyone agree;s that jenson is very good ona drying track, like canada and hungary this year, but in wet conditons when inters or full wets are used. he generally is not on a par to lewis, or even close to be honest.
Was nice of you to toally forget about hamilton winning by over a minute at silverstone back in 08, or his fuji win plus monaco.
and lol at korea, are you aware how far he finished ahead of jenson that race?? jenson was getting over taken by EVERYONE aside from the 3 new teams.

[wesley123]

Indeed.

In my opinion Hamilton is simply better. Take a look at it, where others barely are any faster take a look at Hamilton. He simply shredded the field apart in Huji 07, Silverstone 08 and Monaco 08, I believe I am forgetting a few too. Fact is and stays that Hamilton is having 2 very unlucky years, both personally as well as on track. The fact stays that he dominated in those races I named, also in Spa last year he prett ymuch drove a whole race alone, saying he spun off track hitting the barriers and being lucky to came out is true but a dumb point to hate on. Just saying that everyone else made more stupid mistakes. Just giving an example of teh whole field overshooting the Busstop, or Vettel who T-Boned Button.

What I really hate is that when you win a race in the wet, you are automaticly a 'rainmaster', which is rubbish. If we take a list from this Barrichello is one, Schumacher is one, Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Button are too, and I am even forgetting a few too, where the truth is only Hamilton and Schumacher are exceptional in wet weather and therefore only those deserve the title. Why is Vettel even named rainmaster? I dont get it, the only race he won in wet was Monza 2008 which he never would have won wouldn't the top teams made a mistake in qualifying, when someone wins once in the rain everyone forgets what mistakes they made in same conditions.

[ringo]

China last year showed that Button could easily match hamilton's times & Hamilton's times slowly fell off as the tyres got older.

You didn't watch the race did you?
See the highlights if you want.

Plus it is not easy driving with slicks in the wet & Button did for a few laps in China last year & managed to keep the car in the track unlike Hamilton.

This just sounds so bitter. Button went right of track in the end when Hamilton was coming for him. He went off in australia too and got swarmed when the race started.
Button is no good in the wet simple and obvious.
"ulink Hamilton" what's that suppose to mean really?
No matter how you want to cut it, There is 1 best rain driver.

Also Hamilton sucked in korea last year too,didnt he??? Didn't he spun off again & loose his place to Alonso.

Sure, coming second in a race where your teammate only beats an HRT.How sucky. That race was top class from Both Hamilton and Alonso. The mclaren was never quick on the start in both Korea 2010 and 2011. Hamilton work wonders bringing the car home.

Hamilton has NEVER been anything exceptional in the wet,makes way too many mistakes.

Then who's the exceptional one?
All the guys Hamilton owned in the wet?
Vettel who got owned in china in both 2010 and 2011. Shumacher who got owned in china 2010, and owned again in Canada 2011?

Mr.S i would like you to state who is the best rain driver. And give supporting evidence. I expect a reply ASAP.